If we vote for Brexit what happens

mrginge

Moby wrote: »

I find it extremely difficult to understand how a fellow public service worker who works in an area which has been subjected to savage cuts by the Govmt can nevertheless support them. It's basically nonsensical. I mean Tromking you've had a front row seat over the last few years. What do you think she'll do to public services with a huge majority? Don't you fear for your/colleagues future. Don't you worry about the consequences of the issues I've raised? Head in hands at working class tories! what chance for change in this country when people who have relatively little choose to vote for politicians who are screwing them! Its incomprehensible! We do have a history of being fawning lackeys to royalty/the elite and do tend to concentrate on personalities instead of ideas or values; perhaps it's a child like trust that the elite will do right by us. Very strange! We have short lived rebellions against such naive attitudes. WW2 shook up the workers and got rid of Churchill and resulted in real change......... the NHS, pensions etc.......and then the elite come back and start looking after their own again. Bringing up the spectre of Diane Abbott is just lazy puerile and irrelevant. It should be about values/policies not personalities!

It must be hard for Moby. He hates the tories. He hates the lib Dems. He hates Corbyn.

All he wants is the great saviour tony Blair (or some third rate clone) to give him a big cuddle and take up the reins of govt.

He doesn't realise that the best chance of that happening is for labour to get thoroughly tonked.
At least then they might have a sniff in 2022 with a vaguely electable leader. If Corbyn gets in (stop laughing at the back) the resulting disaster will be the absolute end of labour.

Thrugelmir

wotsthat wrote: »

Some, like AMSJ, perceive Brexit as an opportunity for wages to increase and coax the willing unemployed back into the labour market.

One of you will be disappointed. Maybe both.

The increase in minimum wage through to 2020. Is making work more attractive. Given increase the in benefits are capped as well.

vivatifosi

mystic_trev wrote: »

https://www.nytimes.com/times-journeys/travel/brexit-means-brexit/

I am a totally sad sap. I'd love to do that!

Thrugelmir

Arklight wrote: »

Theresa May has made it clear that we will get neither.

Has she? Or is that your hopeful negative approach to everything.

Conrad

Herzlos wrote: »

I know you think you're onto something with a few smallish EU industries that'll hurt, but to the entire continent/bloc the impact they'll suffer is pretty insignificant. The EU isn't going to give the UK a special deal just to satisfy the Spanish fruit growers.

?

In the final analysis I just don't see nations such as France with all sorts of economic woes and high unemployment voting to harm thier trade and people, on top of losing our billions in contribution fees.

Everytime a Remainers speaks of the British being punished, what they should be saying is both us and France or Spain et al being punished with less trade.

As to them finding new markets, we've been over this so many times. If it was that easy Hollande would have already done it and thus avoid all the economic woes his nation endured. Spain's, Italy and others the same.

Conrad

wotsthat wrote: »

Some, like AMSJ, perceive Brexit as an opportunity for wages to increase and coax the willing unemployed back into the labour market.

One of you will be disappointed. Maybe both.

I wish I was one of those who see the big win as leaving the EU regardless of the consequences - they must be as happy as Larry.

One reason UK productivity is low is because companies stopped bothering training youngsters in the way they used to, and instead took the easy lazy route of importing cheap labour instead of investing in training and technology infrastructure.

Thrugelmir

Conrad wrote: »

One reason UK productivity is low is because companies stopped bothering training youngsters in the way they used to, and instead took the easy lazy route of importing cheap labour instead of investing in training and technology infrastructure.

They didn't import. The trained labour came here as the pay etc was better. One day many will no doubt return home.

CKhalvashi

kabayiri wrote: »

I want dirt cheap migrant labour from the developing world to replace more expensive EE labour doing the grotty jobs tbh.

I'd dump the minimum wage to get it.

We don't even need to offer permanent residency. Cheap labour would reduce operating costs, and we might stop outsourcing work for a change.

I suppose this is too right wing for most on here eh.

I couldn't give a stuff about the £350m argument.

I personally think that's disgusting, and will lead to less tax paid and higher welfare. We can't have both.

People complain that people don't want to work because they're better on welfare, but reducing the minimum wage to £2 or £3 an hour will be completely counterproductive in dealing with that issue.

It will also completely crush the NHS, and completely screw the economy even more. It will also mean less public services. As has worked in the Nordics, a high welfare, high tax economy is fair for all, and I do have to believe that the coalition government had just about got the mix right between taxes and spending. We should be raising more tax through growth rather than seeking to make further cuts, and I don't see the 'clean break' being desired is going to do that.

We should be looking to remain a high wage economy, trading inside the EEA with our European neighbours, whilst being outside the customs union so we can agree our own FTAs with the rest of the world if we have to leave, however the government don't want this.

This is as close to what you want as I'm willing to argue for.

Tromking

Moby wrote: »

I find it extremely difficult to understand how a fellow public service worker who works in an area which has been subjected to savage cuts by the Govmt can nevertheless support them. It's basically nonsensical. I mean Tromking you've had a front row seat over the last few years. What do you think she'll do to public services with a huge majority? Don't you fear for your/colleagues future. Don't you worry about the consequences of the issues I've raised? Head in hands at working class tories! what chance for change in this country when people who have relatively little choose to vote for politicians who are screwing them! Its incomprehensible! We do have a history of being fawning lackeys to royalty/the elite and do tend to concentrate on personalities instead of ideas or values; perhaps it's a child like trust that the elite will do right by us. Very strange! We have short lived rebellions against such naive attitudes. WW2 shook up the workers and got rid of Churchill and resulted in real change......... the NHS, pensions etc.......and then the elite come back and start looking after their own again. Bringing up the spectre of Diane Abbott is just lazy puerile and irrelevant. It should be about values/policies not personalities!

You make a good point.
For my own sanity I have to separate my views on Brexit from this Tories Government's appalling treatment of the public service I have worked in for 30 years. I do admit to being conflicted in this election, and I haven't a clue who I'm going to vote for.
Like a growing amount of people I don't identify with any one party and have voted for most parties in my time.
If I'm honest I`m waiting for a party that represents my left leaning, socially conservative instincts.

Thrugelmir

Originally Posted by Moby
I find it extremely difficult to understand how a fellow public service worker who works in an area which has been subjected to savage cuts by the Govmt can nevertheless support them.

Having spent the vast majority of my working life in the private sector from failed in a multitude of environments including start ups to PLC's. I was not prepared for the gross inefficiency within the public sector which I encountered. We've driven costs down to a level which are now just over 10% of that a comparable private sector organisation. Plenty of waste and savings in the pipeline to come. Being the public sector the Unions of course want their two penny worth. Which of course results in slow progress and 20 committee meetings to make a decision. Put the blame fairly on the management, the incestuous nature of promoting those in the club to maintain the status quo. No one ever gets the boot........