If we vote for Brexit what happens

TrickyTree83

Moby wrote: »

I think we are becoming very myopic in this country. We tend to see things through the lens of Brexit because that's what is important to us now. There is a lot of confirmation bias in all the hunting around for stories about how the EU is 'falling apart .....IKEA lorry drivers....etc. Such stories make brexiteers more comfortable that they are doing the 'right thing'. Unemployment is high in the south but I've spent some time in Spain recently....a lot of people are working on a casual basis and their statistics don't reflect that. We need to be sure we a re not overblowing the EU crises because of our own insecurities! IMO the populist surge is a temporary phenomenon.....hopefully.

Really wish you'd stop denouncing people's views as populist surge.

That's akin to people ignoring the 48% here. The PVV had such a toxic manifesto that something must be seriously wrong on the continent for them to get Dutch votes.

CKhalvashi

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Really wish you'd stop denouncing people's views as populist surge.

That's akin to people ignoring the 48% here. The PVV had such a toxic manifesto that something must be seriously wrong on the continent for them to get Dutch votes.

However there are some that will vote for someone based on nothing.

They've gone on a largely anti-Muslim manifesto, that probably reminds you of the BNP to an extent, and remember Nick Griffin was an MEP. UKIP in their early days could be considered similar, although even I'll admit that they've become a lot more mainstream with some sensible policies now.

I don't get the point in singling out a particular religion or nationality for abuse, but that's just me.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Moby wrote: »

I think we are becoming very myopic in this country. We tend to see things through the lens of Brexit because that's what is important to us now. There is a lot of confirmation bias in all the hunting around for stories about how the EU is 'falling apart .....IKEA lorry drivers....etc. Such stories make brexiteers more comfortable that they are doing the 'right thing'. Unemployment is high in the south but I've spent some time in Spain recently....a lot of people are working on a casual basis and their statistics don't reflect that. We need to be sure we a re not overblowing the EU crises because of our own insecurities! IMO the populist surge is a temporary phenomenon.....hopefully.

It matters not one jot what WE in the UK see - and you can call it myopia or whatever you like, but to suggest "such stories make Brexiteers more comfortable" is just a typical blinkered Remainer response TBH to justify an ill-founded adoration of the EU.

There is a rise in "populism" and anti-EU sentiment within the Eurozone.
Blatant extremists like Geert Wilders can influence not only significant numbers of voters in his homeland of Holland but also influence the country's strongest political parties to adopt some of his anti-EU stances themselves.

Marine Le Pen; Frauke Petry; Beppe Grillo; heck, there's quite a list of similarly extremist leaders across the Eurozone who have considerable support.
Perhaps not enough to become the power in their country BUT undoubtedly enough to change it's political direction.

To deny the existence or popularity of such parties is frankly ridiculous.
To suggest that discussing these parties is a form of Brexiter insecurity is at best (and being generous) ill-founded; indeed it could be said instead that the denial of such discussions is due to the insecurity of remainers who refuse to accept that others outside the UK do not like the EU very much either.

It spoils the whole "But we love the EU" ethos doesn't it, when so much of the Eurozone dislikes the EU?

setmefree2

nkomp18 wrote: »

It's 2017, I'm amazed there are still religions on earth. Haven't people woken up to the fact that there's on old man behind the clouds who gets angry if you show hair but somehow doesn't mind giving some random babies cancer. Astounding...
All companies should be secular and ban all religious symbols. There's just no room for all that rubbish in a modern society. Do what you want at home, but keep it private

I agree 100%.

setmefree2

orwen wrote: »

I don't know, but I've woken up to the fact that a lot of zealously secular people are actually quite puritanical in their references to a supernatural, male supreme being.

Can we get back on topic please? Is it economically in the interest of the United Kingdom to leave the EU?

Reasons for or against appreciated.

Thanks.

FWIW the thread isn't entitled " Is it economically in the interest of the United Kingdom to leave the EU? " - it's entitled "If we vote for Brexit what happens?" and what happens when we leave the EU is that we get to decide which laws and court rulings we want to keep - so we are completely on topic.

Thank You.

mayonnaise

Moby wrote: »

Unemployment is high in the south but I've spent some time in Spain recently....a lot of people are working on a casual basis and their statistics don't reflect that. We need to be sure we a re not overblowing the EU crises because of our own insecurities! IMO the populist surge is a temporary phenomenon.....hopefully.

True.
Spent some time in Andalusia last year. Is supposed to be a high unemployment region, but the picture on the street is way different.
In the UK we put our unemployed on a zero hour contract, call it a job and rejoice about the health of our labour market.
In Spain, they're actually working and getting paid cash in hand no questions asked.

gfplux

Moby wrote: »

I think we are becoming very myopic in this country. We tend to see things through the lens of Brexit because that's what is important to us now. There is a lot of confirmation bias in all the hunting around for stories about how the EU is 'falling apart .....IKEA lorry drivers....etc. Such stories make brexiteers more comfortable that they are doing the 'right thing'. Unemployment is high in the south but I've spent some time in Spain recently....a lot of people are working on a casual basis and their statistics don't reflect that. We need to be sure we a re not overblowing the EU crises because of our own insecurities! IMO the populist surge is a temporary phenomenon.....hopefully.

I agree and anyone can hunt around for story's that will support their opinion.
That is certainly the reason I rarely post any links to "stories" that "might" suggest that Brexit is not a bad idea. There are many but they like the Brexit "positive story's" are only small pieces in this complex story. Although I have referred in the past to "death by a thousand cuts" meaning during this time of uncertainty (and no one can claim there is no such thing) People, Family's, Company's and institutions are making small incremental decisions that might not be in Britains best interests.
Anyone who claims that Brexit is 100% good is clearly wrong just as if I (a Remainder) would claim that staying in the EU is 100% good.
Britain is clearly leaving the EU. That's the (for me the unpleasant) fact.
It is a very complex situation and both Britain and the EU will work hard to firstly untangle Britain from the EU and then both party's will move on to make the best of their new situation.
What is in my opinion wrong, wrong, wrong are people who clearly believe that Britain will rapidly become a rich and powerful nation when they finally throw off the drag break that is the EU.
There is a lot of work to be done and no good will come of just thinking it will happen. Britains leaders will have to be at the top of their game and you have to hope they are up to it.
Britain must also not allow Brexit to take up so much of managements, civil servants and politicians time that the "lost opportunity cost" will damage the result.
When I refer to uncertainty I am sure there are a number of People, Family's, Company's and Institutions that are just holding off from a good or bad decision (for Britain) waiting for that final of final decisions, the triggering of A50.
There may be good reasons to leave it to the last minute of the last day of March 2017 and I wish the Prime Minister would tell us.

setmefree2

larochelleuk wrote: »

Buzzfeed quotes a senior EU official saying EU membership is a "slam dunk."

An EU official also said they would not countenance anything unconstitutional so it is all in Westminster's gift.

setmefree2

Moby wrote: »

The Dutch are reasonable moderate people who do not fall for the right wing populist lies it seems!

In comparison we have Paul Nuttall...!Do country's get the politicians they deserve!

FYI Rutte is a right wing conservative

Dutch PM Rutte: 'If you don't like it here, then leave'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38718286

setmefree2

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Mmmm, if you'd seen Wilder's manifesto I'm not surprised he's turned people away and I'm rather shocked he obtained as many votes as he did. Some of the manifesto is reminiscent of the Nazi's views of the Jews, only this time it's the PVV's views of the Muslims. I would have thought questions should be asked over why someone with such a manifesto can come joint 2nd.

Really really scary that this is the second biggest party in Holland.