If we vote for Brexit what happens

cogito

mayonnaise wrote: »

Wilders' PVV got ~13% vote share.
UKIP got 12.6% last general election.

We're not that far behind really.

PVV got 19 seats out of 150. UKIP got one out of 650.

Conrad

cogito wrote: »

PVV got 19 seats out of 150. UKIP got one out of 650.

Yes and PVV pushed the Tories well right and Labour lost 70% of their seats

mayonnaise

cogito wrote: »

PVV got 19 seats out of 150. UKIP got one out of 650.

Due to our electoral system.
My reply was to someone stating the extreme right is getting much more popular support in mainland Europe compared to the UK.

Which is a fallacy.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

mayonnaise wrote: »

Due to our electoral system.
My reply was to someone stating the extreme right is getting much more popular support in mainland Europe compared to the UK.

Which is a fallacy.

It is not fallacy.
You are considering these to be the equivalent of UKIP - but not so; they are much more closely equivalent to the EDL or BNP.
How strong is THEIR support in comparison to the far right in the rest of the EU?

Then there are actions from across the EU, of which there are many examples but here are just a few:
Explain where the decision that a ban on head scarves is acceptable has come from?
Who is building fences to keep migrants out?
The extremist Geert Wilders now leads the second-largest political party in Holland.
Greece's third-largest political party is the Golden Dawn - neo-Nazi and violent, with dozens of officials arrested by Greek authorities.


So where is similar support for such extremism in the UK?
Because Brexit is certainly not extreme in comparison with the above.

A little more?
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/world/europe/europe-far-right-political-parties-listy.html?_r=0

Tromking

mayonnaise wrote: »

Due to our electoral system.
My reply was to someone stating the extreme right is getting much more popular support in mainland Europe compared to the UK.

Which is a fallacy.

Only an idiot would compare the hapless one issue UKIP with the burgeoning lurch to far right politics we are witnessing on the mainland.
Incidentally the latest poll has the freefalling UKIP on 6%, 7 points behind the Lib Dems.
You're so p*ssed that your world view has been trashed by the Brexit vote, you want to compare leave voters with Nazis in other countries.

TrickyTree83

Tromking wrote: »

Only an idiot would compare the hapless one issue UKIP with the burgeoning lurch to far right politics we are witnessing on the mainland.
Incidentally the latest poll has the freefalling UKIP on 6%, 7 points behind the Lib Dems.
You're so p*ssed that your world view has been trashed by the Brexit vote, you want to compare leave voters with Nazis in other countries.

I wouldn't call the voters Nazi's.

I think they are turning to people like Wilders because they're not being listened to.

In terms of the lurch to the right...

Austria had it.

The Dutch have just had it. That PVV manifesto is awful.

The French are having it.

The Swede's are having it.

The USA has had it.

The UK has had it.

Apparently the Finnish are having it?

The Germans are having it.

The Italians are having it.

If these people are not gaining power, that may be seen as a blessing now, but as others have pointed out these parties now wield influence to a degree. And if the prevailing orthodoxy doesn't start listening to the concerns of people support will continue to bleed into these movements who have come from nowhere to suddenly participate in the mainstream political process. The recent Dutch elections are an example of the incumbent being pushed to the right in order to secure a victory. That's influencing the political landscape in Holland.

The centrist parties need to wake the hell up and stop towing the same line that's gotten them into this mess as Rutte has just demonstrated, Wilders mere presence forces that change. Le Pen's presence forces that change. Beppe Grillo (sp?) forces that change. Politics on the mainland is changing dramatically and it's because the political orthodoxy has not been listening to the people and they've had enough.

cogito

Conrad wrote: »

Yes and PVV pushed the Tories well right and Labour lost 70% of their seats

Indeed and right wing parties took 45% of the vote. The Eurocrats must be starting to worry that the voters aren't buying what they are selling.

Sapphire

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I wouldn't call the voters Nazi's.

I think they are turning to people like Wilders because they're not being listened to.

In terms of the lurch to the right...

Austria had it.

The Dutch have just had it. That PVV manifesto is awful.

The French are having it.

The Swede's are having it.

The USA has had it.

The UK has had it.

Apparently the Finnish are having it?

The Germans are having it.

The Italians are having it.

If these people are not gaining power, that may be seen as a blessing now, but as others have pointed out these parties now wield influence to a degree. And if the prevailing orthodoxy doesn't start listening to the concerns of people support will continue to bleed into these movements who have come from nowhere to suddenly participate in the mainstream political process. The recent Dutch elections are an example of the incumbent being pushed to the right in order to secure a victory. That's influencing the political landscape in Holland.

The centrist parties need to wake the hell up and stop towing the same line that's gotten them into this mess as Rutte has just demonstrated, Wilders mere presence forces that change. Le Pen's presence forces that change. Beppe Grillo (sp?) forces that change. Politics on the mainland is changing dramatically and it's because the political orthodoxy has not been listening to the people and they've had enough.

Precisely. It is fashionable among lefties in the UK to describe anyone right of centre as 'fascist' (or whatever other word they can use in their propaganda that has the same 'branding' effect). However, these same lefties have never actually had experience with true fascists, or suffered oppression from such people. The fact that so many people in continental countries are increasingly voting them in is a sign of the fact that they are not being listened to, despite being profoundly dissatisfied. People do not just turn to extremes for no reason – and clearly there are now key reasons why this is happening, though those who live in their glass houses would no doubt deny this.

It's no good simply calling such people names or flinging insults or worse at them (thus helping to drive them further right), or trying to ban them (which could lead to even more dangerous effects, such as civil wars), or blaming factors that have nothing to do with why people are so discontented (at least a large part due to the way the EU dictatorship has behaved, and to its mismanagement).

It doesn't suit the political agenda (or the vested interests) of bungling EU commissars to acknowledge this, and they are not prepared (or capable) of acting on it. But these problems will not just go away, no matter how much they might hide their heads in the sand. On their shoulders be it…

I fear we haven't seen anything yet.

Thrugelmir

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I wouldn't call the voters Nazi's.

I think they are turning to people like Wilders because they're not being listened to.

In terms of the lurch to the right...

More likely to be left leaning. As less socially mobile. Nationalism is the word of the day. European is a generic term for the well off. Whose primary interest is themselves.

mayonnaise

Tromking wrote: »

Only an idiot would compare the hapless one issue UKIP with the burgeoning lurch to far right politics we are witnessing on the mainland.
Incidentally the latest poll has the freefalling UKIP on 6%, 7 points behind the Lib Dems.
You're so p*ssed that your world view has been trashed by the Brexit vote, you want to compare leave voters with Nazis in other countries.

Nonsense.
Do I really have to provide links to Farage's comments about the British Muslim 'fifth column', his support for Trump's muslim travel ban?
Lisa Duffy's calls to ban headscarves and muslim schools?
Nuttall's calls to ban the burqa?
It's exactly the same rhetoric as their extreme right counterparts on mainland Europe.