If we vote for Brexit what happens

CLAPTON

antrobus wrote: »

Given that "communistic idealistic states" were noted for not allowing people to move, I fail to see the connection.



So long as we keep up the barriers to stop them from coming here, eh?:rotfl:

No idea what substantive points you are trying to make in your last two posts.

mwpt

CLAPTON wrote: »

1000,0000,000 lost lives are too many to pay.
of course people who supported that madness of the communistic idealistic states may consider it a price worth paying

better to experiment by breaking away from a White Christian club that discriminates against poor developing non white counties and embracing trading with the whole world on a non-discriminatory basis.

why not give it a try as it would be a progressive step which breaks down barriers?

I think you're being disingenuous. I don't think you really want to open up to the rest of the world more than you just want to close our borders and become more insular.

CLAPTON

mwpt wrote: »

I think you're being disingenuous. I don't think you really want to open up to the rest of the world more than you just want to close our borders and become more insular.

why not discuss the substantive points rather that telling me I do or do not really think?

mwpt

CLAPTON wrote: »

why not discuss the substantive points rather that telling me I do or do not really think?

What substantive points? The 1000,000,000 lost lives you invented based on me saying that in order to reach your stated desired goals of "world peace" we needed more integration, not less.

Your argument wasn't an argument. I couldn't really say anything to it because there wasn't substance.

CLAPTON

mwpt wrote: »

What substantive points? The 1000,000,000 lost lives you invented based on me saying that in order to reach your stated desired goals of "world peace" we needed more integration, not less.

Your argument wasn't an argument. I couldn't really say anything to it because there wasn't substance.

Some of the substantial point you may or may not wish to ponder

-I prefer the democracy of the UK so I can directly vote for different policies by changing the government.
-The EU is a white christian club that for 50 years has discriminated against poor developing (largely non white) countries and in the process has done huge harm.
Some of the consequences are seen today with the migration from Africa.
-There may come a time whether peace and relative equality may lead to a situation where free movement of people is practical.
-However, that time is simply not now and I think that naive idealism to try to achieve this prematurely would lead to war and massive number of deaths.
-The EU is not a good model and is certainly not 'progressive' as it repeatedly ignores the reality of the current situation.
It's naive and 'idealistic ' model is likely to lead to the breakup of the EU and undo the little good it has done.
-I prefer a different model that means we trade with all countries on an equal basis.
-I wish to limit immigration as I think this give a better quality of life to the people of the UK

and many other things too

Roleypoley

If we vote fore Brexit what happens next is we all pay more. The unemploymeny caused by underinvestment if we are out, companies moving to other parts of the eu or China (Like Nissan), all the knock on jobs that would be lost, would mean our taxes have to go up to pay for the huge increases in unemployment benefits. OR the governemnt continues cutting so we have no health service worth having and everybody is trying to get their kids into private schools because the education service has been cut so badly, teachers vote with their feet, etc. People think, its just other peoples jobs that will go, but it might be yours, and we will definietly be affected.

mayonnaise

Roleypoley wrote: »

If we vote fore Brexit what happens next is we all pay more. The unemploymeny caused by underinvestment if we are out, companies moving to other parts of the eu or China (Like Nissan), all the knock on jobs that would be lost, would mean our taxes have to go up to pay for the huge increases in unemployment benefits. OR the governemnt continues cutting so we have no health service worth having and everybody is trying to get their kids into private schools because the education service has been cut so badly, teachers vote with their feet, etc. People think, its just other peoples jobs that will go, but it might be yours, and we will definietly be affected.

Yes, but Clapton will be able to drive his Vauxhall Astra on roads not clogged up by pesky migrants, so it's all worth it.

angrypirate

Roleypoley wrote: »

If we vote fore Brexit what happens next is we all pay more. The unemploymeny caused by underinvestment if we are out, companies moving to other parts of the eu or China (Like Nissan), all the knock on jobs that would be lost, would mean our taxes have to go up to pay for the huge increases in unemployment benefits. OR the governemnt continues cutting so we have no health service worth having and everybody is trying to get their kids into private schools because the education service has been cut so badly, teachers vote with their feet, etc. People think, its just other peoples jobs that will go, but it might be yours, and we will definietly be affected.

Just like what happened when we didnt join the Euro... oh hang on...

mwpt

CLAPTON wrote: »

Some of the substantial point you may or may not wish to ponder

-I prefer the democracy of the UK so I can directly vote for different policies by changing the government.
-The EU is a white christian club that for 50 years has discriminated against poor developing (largely non white) countries and in the process has done huge harm.
Some of the consequences are seen today with the migration from Africa.
-There may come a time whether peace and relative equality may lead to a situation where free movement of people is practical.
-However, that time is simply not now and I think that naive idealism to try to achieve this prematurely would lead to war and massive number of deaths.
-The EU is not a good model and is certainly not 'progressive' as it repeatedly ignores the reality of the current situation.
It's naive and 'idealistic ' model is likely to lead to the breakup of the EU and undo the little good it has done.
-I prefer a different model that means we trade with all countries on an equal basis.
-I wish to limit immigration as I think this give a better quality of life to the people of the UK

and many other things too

Those are not unreasonable points. I think the pros of the EU outweigh the cons. I think that restricting free movement by leaving a union which has had a lot of success and no wars for many years is a regressive step if your goal is eventual free movement for all people. But if you feel strongly that the EU is a force for evil in the world, then sure, I understand why you would want to leave. But I'm going to disagree with you.

CLAPTON

mwpt wrote: »

Those are not unreasonable points. I think the pros of the EU outweigh the cons. I think that restricting free movement by leaving a union which has had a lot of success and no wars for many years is a regressive step if your goal is eventual free movement for all people. But if you feel strongly that the EU is a force for evil in the world, then sure, I understand why you would want to leave. But I'm going to disagree with you.

I am saying that the EU has done a lot of un-necessary harm both to developing countries and to EU countries like Greece, Spain, Portugal Italy which you completely refuse to acknowledge or analysis, presumably because it doesn't affect you personally and conflicts with your idealist view of the EU.

However if actually read my post you would see they the above were not all the substantial reasons for leaving which included the wish for democratic control, a wish to trade with all the countries of the world etc.

If tomorrow (obviously without consulting the people of the EU), the EU proposed offering unlimited free movement of people with Turkey, Middles East and North African countries, would you support his wholeheartedly?