If we vote for Brexit what happens

Rinoa

Roleypoley wrote: »

The unemploymeny caused by underinvestment if we are out, companies moving to other parts of the eu or China (Like Nissan), all the knock on jobs that would be lost, would mean our taxes have to go up to pay for the huge increases in unemployment benefits. OR the governemnt continues cutting so we have no health service worth having and everybody is trying to get their kids into private schools because the education service has been cut so badly, teachers vote with their feet, etc. People think, its just other peoples jobs that will go, but it might be yours, and we will definietly be affected.

Yes. We keep hearing about all this investment drying up.

But wait. What's this? Here's Reuters interview today with the head honcho of the worlds biggest sovereign wealth fund ever.

Will they be withdrawing investment from the UK in the event of a Brexit?

"We will continue to be a significant investor in the UK at about the same level as we are today and probably even increasing our investments there going forward no matter what happens,"

Another myth debunked.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-norway-swf-idUKKCN0WB1NJ?rpc=401

Filo25

CLAPTON wrote: »

I am saying that the EU has done a lot of un-necessary harm both to developing countries and to EU countries like Greece, Spain, Portugal Italy which you completely refuse to acknowledge or analysis, presumably because it doesn't affect you personally and conflicts with your idealist view of the EU.

However if actually read my post you would see they the above were not all the substantial reasons for leaving which included the wish for democratic control, a wish to trade with all the countries of the world etc.

If tomorrow (obviously without consulting the people of the EU), the EU proposed offering unlimited free movement of people with Turkey, Middles East and North African countries, would you support his wholeheartedly?

Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy, destroyed their own economies, firstly by joining the Euro, and then by not really understanding what that meant for their economies going forwards.

Not all of us who think we should on balance remain in the EU think the EU is perfect and not all of us were in favour of joining the Euro either, I certainly wasn't.

mwpt

CLAPTON wrote: »

I am saying that the EU has done a lot of un-necessary harm both to developing countries and to EU countries like Greece, Spain, Portugal Italy which you completely refuse to acknowledge or analysis, presumably because it doesn't affect you personally and conflicts with your idealist view of the EU.

Because those are just largely opinion and unsubstantiable. I can't quantify what harm the EU has done even if I did agree with you (which I don't regarding those countries). Overall I think it has done more good than harm. The Euro though was a bad idea and I hope it is eventually discarded.

If tomorrow (obviously without consulting the people of the EU), the EU proposed offering unlimited free movement of people with Turkey, Middles East and North African countries, would you support his wholeheartedly?

No. Because like you, I think that the resulting uncontrolled immigration will overburden the current states and lead to economic collapse and probably a lot of unrest and violence. I think the way forward is more trade and a gradual opening of borders. Maybe the UK in the EU can attempt some of the reforms you propose.

Filo25

mwpt wrote: »

Because those are just largely opinion and unsubstantiable. I can't quantify what harm the EU has done even if I did agree with you (which I don't regarding those countries). Overall I think it has done more good than harm. The Euro though was a bad idea and I hope it is eventually discarded.



No. Because like you, I think that the resulting uncontrolled immigration will overburden the current states and lead to economic collapse and probably a lot of unrest and violence. I think the way forward is more trade and a gradual opening of borders. Maybe the UK in the EU can attempt some of the reforms you propose.

Oddly enough historically the UK has been one of the member states pushing for Turkey to join the EU

CLAPTON

Filo25 wrote: »

Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy, destroyed their own economies, firstly by joining the Euro, and then by not really understanding what that meant for their economies going forwards.

Not all of us who think we should on balance remain in the EU think the EU is perfect and not all of us were in favour of joining the Euro either, I certainly wasn't.

just to be clear then

for EU countries that do well then it is because they are in the EU
for EU countries that do badly then it's their own fault

seems very reasonable

Filo25

Clapton do you enjoy posting strawman arguments all day?

With all due respect its not always massively helpful.

I could just as easily belittle your comments by saying anything the EU does is bad and anything the UK does is good!

So just to be clear you don't think the governments of those countries had any responsibility for developing economic plans to ensure they would remain competitive before signing up to a regime where they would be locked into a fixed exchange rate with Germany?

I'm not even a massive Europhile, but I don't see the point in blaming them for every ill in the world!

mayonnaise

Filo25 wrote: »

not all of us were in favour of joining the Euro either, I certainly wasn't.

There was never a groundswell movement to adapt the Euro in the UK.
The libdems were in favour yes, and I vaguely remember Blair and Brown waffling on about 5 economic test that needed to be met, which were never met, then Brown killed it off completely in 2005-06.

Muddling the joining the euro debate with the current debate on potentially exiting the largest free trade area in the world is just another sign of desperation in the brexit camp.

mayonnaise

Filo25 wrote: »

Clapton do you enjoy posting strawman arguments all day?

With all due respect its not always massively helpful.

I gave up 'debating' Clapton. Clapton is a constant barrage of inane statements and comments. Once you refute them all, he delivers the next bunch of inane statements and comments. It's quite tiring. And boring.

CLAPTON

Filo25 wrote: »

Clapton do you enjoy posting strawman arguments all day?

With all due respect its not always massively helpful.

I could just as easily belittle your comments by saying anything the EU does is bad and anything the UK does is good!

So just to be clear you don't think the governments of those countries had any responsibility for developing economic plans to ensure they would remain competitive before signing up to a regime where they would be locked into a fixed exchange rate with Germany?

I'm not even a massive Europhile, but I don't see the point in blaming them for every ill in the world!

a bit full of strawmen here.

But just to be clear: I think that every government should have the responsibility to manage their own affairs and be accountable to their electorate.
This is one of the main reasons why I wish to leave the EU and establish free trade with all the countries of the world (including our european friends.

mwpt

mayonnaise wrote: »

There was never a groundswell movement to adapt the Euro in the UK.
The libdems were in favour yes, and I vaguely remember Blair and Brown waffling on about 5 economic test that needed to be met, which were never met, then Brown killed it off completely in 2005-06.

Muddling the joining the euro debate with the current debate on potentially exiting the largest free trade area in the world is just another sign of desperation in the brexit camp.

<Tangental>

If we had joined the Euro, I believe the HPC mob (and me I guess as an independent) would have got their predicted proper housing crash, even in London, in 2008.