If we vote for Brexit what happens

Fella

Could it be that some Remainers are motivated by Racism of all things? Shurely not:

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/03/question-time-audience-member-eu-nationals-serving-coffee-pret/

setmefree2

Fella wrote: »

Could it be that some Remainers are motivated by Racism of all things? Shurely not:

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/03/question-time-audience-member-eu-nationals-serving-coffee-pret/

On the evening after the referendum I was out with some of my London metropolitan elite friends - one of them kept saying "Who's going to clean our streets, who's going to clean our streets ???".....that stuck with me s it really says something...

setmefree2

Brexit: UK 'not obliged' to pay divorce bill say peers

The UK could exit the EU without paying anything if there is no post-Brexit deal, a group of peers has claimed.
The government would be in a "strong" legal position if the two-year Article 50 talks ended with no deal, the Lords EU Financial Affairs Committee said.

The cross-party committee said talk of billions in pounds in liabilities was "hugely speculative" and there was a case that there may be no upfront cost to leaving.
"Although there are competing interpretations, we conclude that if agreement is not reached, all EU law - including provisions concerning ongoing financial contributions and machinery for adjudication - will cease to apply, and the UK would be subject to no enforceable obligation to make any financial contribution at all," it said.
"This would be undesirable for the remaining member states, who would have to decide how to plug the hole in the budget created by the UK's exit without any kind of transition.
"It would also damage the prospects of reaching friendly agreement on other issues.
"Nonetheless, the ultimate possibility of the UK walking away from negotiations without incurring financial commitments provides an important context."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39154218

setmefree2

Brexit bill: Theresa May faces another defeat in House of Lords to stop 'no deal' EU exit, peers warn

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-bill-latest-house-lords-theresa-may-defeat-eu-departure-no-deal-nationals-right-to-stay-a7609391.html

setmefree2

Peers urge PM not to pay divorce bill if no Brexit deal is agreed

Government lawyers are recommending that the Prime Minister should stop paying money to Brussels if Brexit negotiations end in deadlock with no deal.

The highly contentious demand comes in a report by a high-powered House of Lords committee which has examined the legal consequences of Brexit.

According to the peers' report, under international law the UK will not be legally obliged to contribute to the EU budget if an agreement is not reached at the end of Article 50 negotiations.
The report, Brexit and the EU budget, is published by the House of Lords EU Financial Affairs Sub-Committee, which examined the consequences of Brexit on the UK's contributions to and receipts from the EU budget.
The peers warn that both the UK and the EU should recognise the gravity of a no-deal Brexit and should be willing to reach a fair agreement.
But they claim an inability to reach agreement on the budget will undermine the Government's aim to negotiate market access on favourable terms.
However, in the absence of an agreement under Article 50, the committee claims the UK would be subject to no enforceable obligation to make any financial contribution to the EU budget.
Though this would severely damage the prospects of reaching friendly agreement on wider issues, it provides an important context to the negotiations, the peers claim.

http://news.sky.com/story/peers-urge-pm-not-to-pay-divorce-bill-if-no-brexit-deal-is-agreed-10789254

vivatifosi

Thanks setmefree2. On Sky they were also saying that the EU position may be "pay the bill, then we start negotiating", whereas ours will be, we are willing to pay for the right deal, but we have to get to that first and then negotiate the bill.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

davomcdave wrote: »

I'd be careful of reading too much into a single local council by election where not even a quarter of voters could be bothered to come out. The winner got a fraction over 10% of the electorate to vote for her. It's certainly not some vindication of the Tories' Brexit strategy.

Absolutely correct.
Neither however does it demonstrate a supposed overwhelming vindication of the strategy of the remain camp - and this despite the continuation of "project fear".
If anything it shows that people are generally happy with their lot since - if they were not - turnout would most likely have been higher.
Either that or voters have had enough of voting.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Euroscepticism and a post-Brexit EU:

Jyrki Katainen, an UE commission vice-president says:

political leaders in some member states had been demonising the EU for short-term domestic reasons, while some failed to show sufficient solidarity on EU policy despite being part of the decision-making process. On Thursday, the commission criticised member states for failing to live up to their vow in 2015 to relocate thousands of refugees currently languishing in camps in Italy and Greece. Hungary, Austria and Poland refuse to participate in the EU’s relocation scheme. The Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Croatia and Slovakia are doing so on a “very limited basis”.
Katainen said: “[The] 27 governments in the last two years have wanted to be part of the EU and it is fair to say that they will want to stay in the EU but some of the countries are either unwilling to participate in common problem solving or they are demonising the EU even though they have participated in the decision-making themselves.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/03/brexit-has-put-other-leaders-off-wanting-to-leave-says-ec-vice-president

Today the BBC are again commenting on the possibility of a two-speed EU and say this regarding the possibility of EU collapse:

he European Commission has now produced a series of policy options for the best way forward, ranging from shrugging its shoulders to throwing up its hands in horror. But the most likely solution is to make more use of what is known as multi-speed Europe.
That's the idea that "coalitions of the willing" can move forward on big projects even if others want to linger on the starting line.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39140791

As I have said before, by the time the UK are supposedly due to leave the EU whatever remains of this idealistic incohesive group of countries will in all likelihood be very different from the EU of today.

vivatifosi

Interesting, thanks jock. I wonder if it is possible to have a multi speed Europe without addressing the Euro. It strikes me that Italy in particularly will lose from this. Not wealthy enough to do the same as Germany, sheltering teetering banks, yet doing more than its fair share for the refugee crisis.

BobQ

setmefree2 wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39154218

Of course we will not have to pay if there is no agreement. We are simply exiting a Treaty we freely signed, but we will have to continue paying until we have exited the EU in accordance with our Treaty Obligations.

But while there are people who would love us to leave without any agreement, outside la la land we need to extricate ourselves from the mutual dependence that the Brexit voters want to end. We need to do this in a way that is mutually beneficial to both parties and minimises the disruption and complexities So there will be an agreement of some kind that both sides can live with.

It never ceases to amaze me that the Brexit supporters continually bleat about the way the EU intervenes, interferes and constrains what we do. Yet they also think that we can extricate ourselves from all of that without pain and grief and without compromise and give and take. It simply ain't so. Negotiations are complex and both sides (whatever the public posturing, know they need to reach an agreement. The idea that we can do this without cost for the UK and cost for the EU is absurd.

If we have an agreement it will inolve some costs for the UK. If we do not have it the costs will come in a different way. So for example, if we do not agree a reciprocal arrangement on EU nationals, then very soon our nationals who retired to Spain and Portugal may return to the UK and become a burden on the NHS and need social housing. We will still have costs to bear.