If we vote for Brexit what happens

prosaver

BobQ wrote: »

I am not clear what you are interested in from this debate. The poll that initiated this segment of the debate is quite credible for the reasons I have given. All that is being pointed out is that the referendum and its result means that we are unlikely to get a consensus on what is the best deal. We are agreed that Brexit will happen but as the poll shows only a minority support a hard Brexit.

can we see the Euro poll?
as we seem to punching ourselves's in the face

BobQ

Matt_L wrote: »

Ahhh the remoaning continues..

So every argument the remain side put forward was based on fact and no exaggeration or lie was threatened? You're right about people becoming disillusioned, i believe thats exactly why the leave side won the referendum, they saw the remains lies for what they were....

Why do you see every contribution to political debate as "remoaning"? There were lies on both sides, but surely we have moved on from that?

The real issue has been the lack of a plan for what happened next. One is emerging now and we must see where it leads us. But if the Government's solution is a hard Brexit it will not have majority support. But that said, very few Government policies in the UK do have majority support.

BobQ

prosaver wrote: »

can we see the Euro poll?
as we seem to punching ourselves's in the face

What are you asking for?

mrginge

davomcdave wrote: »

WTO tariffs are 10% for some goods but it quickly becomes murky when you look at trade in services and agriculture. This idea of a 'hard Brexit' where the UK simply trades under WTO rules is a bit of a fantasy I fear. What people call a hard Brexit is more of a train wreck Brexit unless the UK can get an actual agreement to trade under WTO rules.

10% for what goods?
What's the average tariff applied?
How would the average tariff affect UK businesses?
Could different rate tariffs actually be a net benefit to the UK based on the differences between our import and export products?
What substitute products are available?
Is it also a train wreck for the EU to be in that position aswell

There is of course no actual requirement to put any tariffs in place is there.

And on and on and on.

Lots of questions to be explored and answered.
Which is why it's pretty ridiculous when someone says we have to listen to a poll in the guardian which asks a question to which I imagine hardly any of the respondents have an actual understanding of.

I agree that the level of debate has improved no end. The problem remains that the sort of campaign that Leave ran which was not specific on ultimate aims means that each Brexit voter will have their own idea as to what Brexit means. I met someone that wanted Brexit because he wanted to buy petrol in gallons again. He's likely to be disappointed with the ultimate outcome of Brexit.

The idea that people's opinions should be vetted to determine if they are acceptable before they are allowed to vote is not something I'm comfortable with.

prosaver

BobQ wrote: »

What are you asking for?

I really dont know anymore
just seems like groundhog day.. just waiting for the tune when the BBC news starts..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYng6OJe6dY

davomcdave

Matt_L wrote: »

Ahhh the remoaning continues..

So every argument the remain side put forward was based on fact and no exaggeration or lie was threatened? You're right about people becoming disillusioned, i believe thats exactly why the leave side won the referendum, they saw the remains lies for what they were....

Try reading my post again. If that's what you got from it you might want to give another go.

We're going to have a Brexit. That Brexit is likely to disappoint a lot of people that voted Brexit because people voted Brexit for different reasons. I hope that makes sense to you as it's very hard to make it any simpler.

Matt_L

BobQ wrote: »

Why do you see every contribution to political debate as "remoaning"? There were lies on both sides, but surely we have moved on from that?

The real issue has been the lack of a plan for what happened next. One is emerging now and we must see where it leads us. But if the Government's solution is a hard Brexit it will not have majority support. But that said, very few Government policies in the UK do have majority support.

You are right we should have moved on however i was responding to a person that wants to drag it up again, when they fail to see their side lied far more but are blind to that then i see it as remoaning..

As for what kind of Brexit, i again believe a person that calls it a "Hard Brexit" is a remoaner, They call it Hard to intimidate people or at least cause fear... From what i can see those that remoan want a, so called Soft Brexit which is in fact no change to our current standing so leave the EU by name only....

We now have you calling Hard Brexit = Leaving the customs union and so on...

What are you now calling us leaving and falling back on WTO terms?? A Hard Hard Brexit? An end of the World Brexit??

davomcdave

Matt_L wrote: »

You are right we should have moved on however i was responding to a person that wants to drag it up again, when they fail to see their side lied far more but are blind to that then i see it as remoaning..

I do recognise that both sides lied and lied as badly as each other. However the Brexit side won and so have been charged with implementing what they said. That is going to be impossible because:

1. Some of it was lies. Get over it.
2. They were highly unspecific about the detail which meant people filled in the gaps in their imagination. That means that some or many people that voted Brexit will be disappointed as shown by the poll that you don't like as it is inconvenient.

Matt_L wrote: »

As for what kind of Brexit, i again believe a person that calls it a "Hard Brexit" is a remoaner, They call it Hard to intimidate people or at least cause fear... From what i can see those that remoan want a, so called Soft Brexit which is in fact no change to our current standing so leave the EU by name only....

We now have you calling Hard Brexit = Leaving the customs union and so on...

What are you now calling us leaving and falling back on WTO terms?? A Hard Hard Brexit? An end of the World Brexit??

We can call hard Brexit something else if you like, I use the term because it's common currency. What do you suggest? We could call it Eric for all I care.

As for 'falling back on WTO terms'. What exactly do you think that means? You realise that would mean the end for the servicing of European markets by UK-based banks and insurance companies right? That the EU could stop importing adverts, films and TV programs from the UK entirely under WTO rules?

It might be helpful if you could spell out what you think 'WTO rules' are because most people think that means '10% tax'. That is wrong.

davomcdave

mrginge wrote: »

10% for what goods?
What's the average tariff applied?
How would the average tariff affect UK businesses?
Could different rate tariffs actually be a net benefit to the UK based on the differences between our import and export products?
What substitute products are available?
Is it also a train wreck for the EU to be in that position aswell

There is of course no actual requirement to put any tariffs in place is there.

And on and on and on.

Lots of questions to be explored and answered.
Which is why it's pretty ridiculous when someone says we have to listen to a poll in the guardian which asks a question to which I imagine hardly any of the respondents have an actual understanding of.

I agree

mrginge wrote: »

The idea that people's opinions should be vetted to determine if they are acceptable before they are allowed to vote is not something I'm comfortable with.

I have no idea how you read that into what I wrote but I don't think that only some people should be allowed to vote based on how much they agree with me.

Moby

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034

The data confirms previous indications that local results were strongly associated with the educational attainment of voters - populations with lower qualifications were significantly more likely to vote Leave

The level of education had a higher correlation with the voting pattern than any other major demographic measure from the census

The research calls it as it is. The lies and labels we pin on each other now mean nada. Remainers are better educated........ But the result was swung by the disenfranchised and poorly educated being led by the nose by a right wing prejudiced elite who told them their lives would be better if there were less immigrants. Farage has his French mistress and his speaking circuit income to look forward to........and will leave us all to it now.........job done. He actually doesn't give a fig about the people who backed his warped view of the world. People are so naive!:rotfl: