If we vote for Brexit what happens

Sapphire

CKhalvashi wrote: »

I think it should be reserved for those that are employed, self-employed or self-sufficient long term (with a net worth of £x), and should take effect from the day we leave the EU (eg 2019).

I think also that it's what is going to happen.

Lets be honest, would it be worth asking someone who is contribting to leave the country? I could roll up tomorrow anywhere in the EU and gain a 5 year residence permit then 5 year residency (I believe this will continue to be the case until 2019 too, as no country can discriminate against another EU national), and for those that want/need to leave for personal/business reasons will offer a way to do so.

I take your point on Merkel's recent migrant amnesty, however they will not have German citizenship by 2019, so shouldn't be an issue in the real world. I believe it's 6 years for refugees unless married to a German citizen, at which point it's being married for 3 (not living in Germany for 3). This won't affect many in this situation, and the number being looked at are probably in the 10s or 100s, most of whom probably won't want to move to the UK.

A global Britain shouldn't want to turn away our European neighbours who want to come to the UK to start or expand a business, especially if that can turn the UK to a hub for export to the rest of the world through a subsidary company, nor British businesspeople from using EU27 countries as an EU hub.. I would suggest a lenient visa policy both ways for this purpose (including residence rights), subject to taxable income of maybe 2x the average wage in each country after 2 years before the situation is regularly reviewed and at that point new migrants could be asked to leave. There should also be a minimum jobs created requirement. This will be subject to negotiation both ways. I admit (as should be obvious from what I've said already) that I set to benefit from this sort of policy personally.

I'd like honest opinions on this from both leavers and remainers, not taking into account where the policy is from (I've included it so that you can check it out yourselves) but rather the principal of it. I'm not excluding opening this up to the rest of the world, just throwing around ideas for debate.

Thank you for the sensible (and quite reassuring) response. I agree with you about permitting those citizens of European countries who are contributing to stay, and also about allowing in those who will contribute positively to our economy, and not be a burden on our society. That's more or less what I believe in.

I do, however, think that there should be a proper vetting system for those who are allowed in, so that people who have a criminal record, for instance, should be kept out – it's natural that this element, as well as those coming from EU countries with massive unemployment, would want to come here, and many of them won't be 'brain surgeons'…

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Moby wrote: »

There is no Mayhem in Germany. She's running our sad little country. Germany is the mightiest economic powerhouse in europe principally because they have a solid, inventive manufacturing industry that makes goods at the right price that others want to buy.

Are you really so ignorant of fact?
In addition to davecomdave's splendid response note this:

What countries comprise the G7 group?
Which country was the fastest-growing of the G7 nations last year?
Which country is forecast as being the fastest-growing in the G7 this year?
No, not your beloved Germany.
The UK.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/uk-economy-will-end-2016-g7s-fastest-growth-predicts-services-sector-survey-1595011

Also it is very widely recognised that the prime reason for German economic success lays at the door of the EU (and hence German) manipulation of the Euro - and this is not only from recent Trump revelations; the below link from 2010 explains how Germany has profited.
https://www.cer.org.uk/in-the-press/germanys-euro-advantage

mayonnaise

davomcdave wrote: »

It's not fair or okay to call the UK a sad little country. Britain is one of the richest countries in the world and has a decent way of life by almost any measure.

Agreed, as you used the present tense.

setmefree2

vivatifosi wrote: »

I don't see liberal as a dirty word. If I go to the OED, I get:

Willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas. Count me in...

Except "Liberals" have stopped being those things - they don't accept opinions different from their own - I offer up two of the most intolerant posters on this thread as an example - Toastie and Moby.

CKhalvashi

Sapphire wrote: »

Thank you for the sensible (and quite reassuring) response. I agree with you about permitting those citizens of European countries who are contributing to stay, and also about allowing in those who will contribute positively to our economy, and not be a burden on our society. That's more or less what I believe in.

I do, however, think that there should be a proper vetting system for those who are allowed in, so that people who have a criminal record, for instance, should be kept out – it's natural that this element, as well as those coming from EU countries with massive unemployment, would want to come here, and many of them won't be 'brain surgeons'…

I'm actually happier we finally agree on something than anything else, and it's quite reassuring that to an extent you do see my views as common sense.

I'm in agreement that vetting needs to be done, and I think a cut off point of 1 year imprisonment and not within the last 5 years should be a fair cutoff, obviously subject to reasonable limits (such as a succession of caution-equivalent punishments in the recent past).

This isn't about making millionaires, more about ensuring that the businesses being created in the situation above are viable and long-term, and not used purely to gain access to the UK without sufficient resources.

I'm open to negotiation on this, which is why I'd like your views on it, but what I've timetabled (and am preparing to present to the relevant people to actually suggest it) above is where my thoughts lie at the moment.

ETA: Can I just correct my post #16306, paragraph 3 "I could roll up tomorrow anywhere in the EU and gain a 5 year residence permit then 5 year residency", second should be permanent residency, as highlighted in Article 4.3, 2003/109/EC, subject to the conditions you can read here. (Link to EU website)

setmefree2

Sapphire wrote: »

Just wondered, do you think that the right to stay of foreign citizens from EU countries will be reserved for those who are actually working and contributing? And surely it would only apply to those who entered the country before Article 50 was triggered – so after that only those who have a job will be allowed to come to Britain and obtain benefits. I worry about the huge numbers of people Merkel invited over to Germany coming here. I don't want the sort of (growing) mayhem, fear and disruption to society that is prevalent in Germany, Sweden and France, and for taxpayers to have to support such numbers, when our NHS, housing, schools and other parts of our infrastructure are already very weak. I want this madness to stop and to feel safe and not suffer anxiety because of all this.

There is a great discussion on how this should/will all operate here.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/exiting-the-european-union-committee/news-parliament-2015/negotiating-objectives-for-eu-withdrawal-10-evidence-16-17/

There seems to be a view that next week the HoC is going to pass an amendment to the A50 bill to give EU citizens the right to remain in the UK - what exactly that means is unclear. And how that will effect Brits in the EU is also unclear.

You raise many valid points. Re the migrants in Germany it will be years before they have an EU passport and also Germany really wants to keep them. They spent 20 billion euros on just that in 2016.

Re wanting to feel safe. I totally get it. So does Donald Trump. Hollande does not: "We have to get used to terrorism" - numpty. France gives a one month visa to an Egyptian terrorist on a security watch list.....please!

setmefree2

davomcdave wrote: »

It's not fair or okay to call the UK a sad little country.

Unbelievable. And two posters thanked that post.

Poor dude - imagine living in a country you hate that much.

setmefree2

UK-EU trade deal 'is possible' by end of Brexit negotiations

A trade deal with Europe alongside a divorce settlement is possible within the two-year negotiation timetable, according to an EU leader.
The Latvian Prime Minister told Sky News that a reasonable solution should be sought with the UK and any differences could be overcome.

http://www.mix96.co.uk/news/national/2215865/uk-eu-trade-deal-is-possible-by-end-of-brexit-negotiations/

setmefree2

Moby wrote: »

There is no Mayhem in Germany. She's running our sad little country. Germany is the mightiest economic powerhouse in europe pricipally because they have a solid, inventive manufacturing industry that makes goods at the right price that others want to buy.
If you tied their currency arrangements in knots, consumers would STILL seek them out...because they're perceived to be THE BEST.......and THAT'S the real worry for the UK.
Post brexit we plan to take on the worlds trading nations from a small trading base for our size, and where we simply haven't matched the investment levels and the productivity/quality levels that they and other countries have.
Even if you look at investment in manufacturing history back to the end of WW2, you quickly see a pattern of, year after year after painful year, we surrendered market share in almost every manufactured range of goods...with some like cars, steel, motor bikes etc etc almost evaporating for ever other than near niche markets.......I see no no-one telling us that the key to any post brexit future is the investment of GINORMOUS sums, and in very short order, since it's naive in the extreme to think that the custodians of business around the world are gonna play any softball game with us....the gloves are quite definitely off........but so many blerts are obsessed with the issue of immigration.......it's a red herring! Get the fundamentals right it's not an issue. You should be anxious I agree.....but for completely different reasons!

What's the point of this nasty post? Are you trying to inflame hatred against the Germans?

I don't hate the Germans. Good Luck to them.

I would say this though, they are obsessed with extending their sphere of influence in Eastern Europe - glad to be moving away from that.

davomcdave

setmefree2 wrote: »

Unbelievable. And two posters thanked that post.

Poor dude - imagine living in a country you hate that much.

Work, love and life have taken me to a few places and I didn't hang about for long in places I didn't like let alone ones I hated. At the moment British people can currently move freely to 27 other countries plus there are many more with pretty low bars to get over to emigrate to (New Zealand for example). Why hang about if it's that bad?

The funny thing is that as much as Labour tribal posters may hate this Government, income inequality is lower than it was under the Blair and Brown Governments. I think the difference is that the Tories understand that the best way for everyone to get on in the world is to give them the tools to do it, not just pay them to sit at home.