If we vote for Brexit what happens

vivatifosi

setmefree2 wrote: »

Except "Liberals" have stopped being those things - they don't accept opinions different from their own - I offer up two of the most intolerant posters on this thread as an example - Toastie and Moby.

I don't accept that liberals have stopped being those things. It is more the case that the word liberal has been hijacked in some quarters by those who are illiberal.

Being a liberal is, imo, quite straightforward. You have to accept that the world is not black and white and contains many shades of grey. That your opinion on some things will change in respond to well reasoned argument, that you accept people's right to make that argument.

Now Milo, I don't share the majority of his views, but I respect his right to free speech. Compare that to someone like Anjam Chowdhury, whose views I also dislike but who actively promotes hate, he should have been shut down much earlier.

Apologies for veering off topic on the Brexit thread.

posh*spice

Moby wrote: »

There is no Mayhem in Germany. She's running our sad little country. Germany is the mightiest economic powerhouse in europe pricipally because they have a solid, inventive manufacturing industry that makes goods at the right price that others want to buy.
If you tied their currency arrangements in knots, consumers would STILL seek them out...because they're perceived to be THE BEST.......and THAT'S the real worry for the UK.
Post brexit we plan to take on the worlds trading nations from a small trading base for our size, and where we simply haven't matched the investment levels and the productivity/quality levels that they and other countries have.
Even if you look at investment in manufacturing history back to the end of WW2, you quickly see a pattern of, year after year after painful year, we surrendered market share in almost every manufactured range of goods...with some like cars, steel, motor bikes etc etc almost evaporating for ever other than near niche markets.......I see no no-one telling us that the key to any post brexit future is the investment of GINORMOUS sums, and in very short order, since it's naive in the extreme to think that the custodians of business around the world are gonna play any softball game with us....the gloves are quite definitely off........but so many blerts are obsessed with the issue of immigration.......it's a red herring! Get the fundamentals right it's not an issue. You should be anxious I agree.....but for completely different reasons!

What a brain washed"Little European" you are. German goods aren't all that - thanks to VW for example we are breathing !!!! air
Some of us would like the opportunity to buy goods from other countires without high tarrifs.

Think Global and stop being so parochial.

Sapphire

setmefree2 wrote: »

What's the point of this nasty post? Are you trying to inflame hatred against the Germans?

I don't hate the Germans. Good Luck to them.

I would say this though, they are obsessed with extending their sphere of influence in Eastern Europe - glad to be moving away from that.

With regard to Germans wanting to extend their sphere of influence in Eastern Europe, I think this is quite true. My aunt tells me that many properties in Silesia, for example, have been bought by Germans. It is obvious that they are attempting to take back the territory that belongs to Poland, and many Germans do harbour ambitions to regain that territory (by stealth if possible).

I was also slightly alarmed to see the brand-new motorways around Warsaw (all paid for by Britain, a taxi driver told me), which form a perfect route to Germany (according to the taxi driver). When you go to Gdansk, a 'free city' before the Second World War but one that was then gradually being taken over by the Germans, you currently see an enormous amount of German visitors there.

Nice though individual Germans may be, I think they simply can't help themselves…

cogito

Sapphire wrote: »

With regard to Germans wanting to extend their sphere of influence in Eastern Europe, I think this is quite true. My aunt tells me that many properties in Silesia, for example, have been bought by Germans. It is obvious that they are attempting to take back the territory that belongs to Poland, and many Germans do harbour ambitions to regain that territory (by stealth if possible).

I was also slightly alarmed to see the brand-new motorways around Warsaw (all paid for by Britain, a taxi driver told me), which form a perfect route to Germany (according to the taxi driver). When you go to Gdansk, a 'free city' before the Second World War but one that was then gradually being taken over by the Germans, you currently see an enormous amount of German visitors there.

Nice though individual Germans may be, I think they simply can't help themselves…

Wow. Do I detect a little paranoia?


I visited Warsaw, Krakow and Wroclaw last month and encountered Japanese, Greeks, Ukrainians, French, Dutch and lots of Poles. The only Germans I saw were visiting Auschwitz.


And if you want to know where the motorways go, look on a road map. You will see that motorways go from Denmark, Holland, France, Belgium, Luxemburg, Czechia, Switzerland and Austria to Germany as well as Poland. Maybe these countries are also in danger of being invaded by Germany.


Gdansk (formerly Danzig) was never Polish until after WW2 when the majority German population was expelled and replaced by Poles. Prior to WW2, the population was 95% German. Perhaps it's not surprising that it gets a lot of German visitors in much the same way as Irish expats go to Ireland.

BobQ

CLAPTON wrote: »

No, if brexit actually happens and migration is restricted, then the young will massive benefit by higher paying jobs, cheap rents and houses, lower pollution and generally a better quality of life.

Faith really does move mountains.

I hope you are right, but if Brexit happens and the some of these things do not come to pass who will you blame then. May has presided over a failure to control non-EU immigration for years, why will the future be any different? Why will rents be cheaper if we do not build more houses? How will Brexit lead to lower air pollution?

Tromking

Sapphire wrote: »

Nice though individual Germans may be, I think they simply can't help themselves…

Germany although a great deal more benign in its intentions than its 20th century incarnations, like every other nation it has its own innate self interest to worry about.
The EU as has been pointed out by the Trump Administration this week has become a vehicle for the much vaunted German industrial strategy. The German economy flourishes while much of southern europe flounders.The EU was done for me when Greek domestic policy was dependent on a vote in the German Bundestag a couple of years back.

CLAPTON

BobQ wrote: »

Faith really does move mountains.

I hope you are right, but if Brexit happens and the some of these things do not come to pass who will you blame then. May has presided over a failure to control non-EU immigration for years, why will the future be any different? Why will rents be cheaper if we do not build more houses? How will Brexit lead to lower air pollution?

true there is no certainty but that is as it has always been.

the lower paid will see rising salaries as the flow of young cheap labour dries up

with lower population or lower population grow at least, there will be more housing available for the existing people so the price will fall

fewer people will mean lower pollution, less traffic, etc etc.

there are no benefits at the present time for a higher population in the SE, for the existing population

A_Medium_Size_Jock

It seems that some EU members are seeking a "multi-speed" future post-Brexit, with some countries moving ahead faster than others with further integration.
Hollande is warning some of the eastern European members:

"Europe isn't a cash-box, not a self-service restaurant, a Europe where you come and take what you need, where you take your structural funds or get access to the internal market and then show no solidarity at all in return,"

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-future-idUKKBN15I2WP?il=0


Meanwhile, Schaeuble suggests a "reasonable" Brexit deal for finance:

"London's financial centre serves the whole European economy," he added. "London offers a quality of financial services that are not to be found on the continent. That would change a bit after a separation, but we have to find reasonable rules here with Britain."

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/04/reuters-america-germanys-schaeuble-wants-reasonable-brexit-deal-for-city.html

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Ah, did someone mention Greece?
The IMF say contingency fiscal measures (greater austerity measures) are unavoidable.
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2017/02/03/imf-report-on-greece-shows-contingency-fiscal-measures-are-unavoidable/

Also the Irish are suggesting a "Grexit" may possible here:

Greek farmers, many on tractors, have once again been blockading roads and border posts amid mounting signs that the country long at the epicentre of Europe’s debt woes is – once again – teetering towards crisis.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/grexit-on-the-cards-a-perfect-storm-is-brewing-in-greece-1.2962459

Mortgagefreeman

BobQ wrote: »

How will Brexit lead to lower air pollution?

Probably by reducing the amount of people talking 'hot air';)

BobQ wrote: »

What state we will be in two months from now I have no idea but I bet that many of those who supported this decision will turn on the Government when the economic realities come to pass