If we vote for Brexit what happens

Sapphire

I hear that absolute scumbag Bliar (hasn't he already done enough damage to Britain?) is in Brussels meeting up with Junkyard, no doubt plotting how to overturn our democratic vote. It's not enough that we have to put up with the threats and disgusting petty dictatorial behaviour of the Brussels bureaucrats, who wish to remove our sovereignty without us having any say in the matter; we also have to deal with the traitors in our midst as well!

If this continues for a prolonged period, and if our people are denied our freedom and right to self-determination, I can foresee major civil unrest in this country. I can sense that people are getting more and more angry and frustrated already.

You simply couldn't make all this up – and it shows how many and what kind of people have vested interests in denying the will of the majority. Next they'll be attempting to do it with elections, to turn us into a tinpot dictatorship (as well as having us subordinate to one in the form of the EU)! Lovely.

Some people in this country have never known how hard democracy is to achieve in the first place, and to claw it back if you do lose it…

The_Last_Username

According to the latest from the CBI, British manufacturing is enjoying the strongest orders in almost two years.

in the latest sign of how Britain's economy has so far withstood the shock of June's vote to leave the European Union, the Confederation of British Industry's monthly industrial orders balance rose to +5 in January from zero in December.
That was its highest since April 2015. Economists polled by Reuters had expected a smaller rise to +2.

In a separate quarterly questionnaire, the CBI found manufacturers were planning more investment and the most optimism in nearly two years. That suggested little concern about the outlook for Britain's relationship with the EU, which buys nearly half its exports.
"UK manufacturers are firing on all cylinders right now with domestic orders up and optimism rising at the fastest pace in two years," Rain Newton-Smith, the CBI's chief economist, said.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-manufacturing-cbi-idUKKBN15918N

The_Last_Username

A case of EU nervousness?
It looks like the EU are reassuring some EEA members in an attempt to keep their current arrangements with the EU post-Brexit.

The European Union's Brexit negotiator sought on Wednesday to reassure the bloc's partners Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein that their interests would be a "priority" when the EU breaks up with Britain.
The three non-EU members have the benefit of free movement of people, goods, services and capital within the EU market of 500 million people with Brussels setting the rules that govern all aspects of the joint European Economic Area (EEA).

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-norway-barnier-idUKKBN1591TO?il=0

posh*spice

Sapphire wrote: »

I hear that absolute scumbag Bliar (hasn't he already done enough damage to Britain?) is in Brussels meeting up with Junkyard, no doubt plotting how to overturn our democratic vote. It's not enough that we have to put up with the threats and disgusting petty dictatorial behaviour of the Brussels bureaucrats, who wish to remove our sovereignty without us having any say in the matter; we also have to deal with the traitors in our midst as well!

If this continues for a prolonged period, and if our people are denied our freedom and right to self-determination, I can foresee major civil unrest in this country. I can sense that people are getting more and more angry and frustrated already.

You simply couldn't make all this up – and it shows how many and what kind of people have vested interests in denying the will of the majority. Next they'll be attempting to do it with elections, to turn us into a tinpot dictatorship (as well as having us subordinate to one in the form of the EU)! Lovely.

Some people in this country have never known how hard democracy is to achieve in the first place, and to claw it back if you do lose it…

Don't worry they can vent their full fury in Copeland and Stoke central. The ballot box is where voters should make their voices heard.

Moby

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Even by your previous standards that is quite a rant!

Now stop obfuscating and READ POST 15690 for two questions which are all yours.
It shouldn't be so difficult.
__________________________________________________

So, us "Brexiteers" are ALL looking to Trump for a deal are we?
And trade deals take years do they?
There is a word for your behaviour; that word is "delusional".

A trade deal with the USA is possible, more-so now with Trump than it was with Obama.
Just for you though, we should resist?
Without even knowing any details?
Well if nothing else it is typical of your delusional POV.

Those "years" for trade agreements are not what is being suggested by not only the USA but by Australia; New Zealand; Singapore; Brazil; India; Iceland ...........are all these counties wrong too then?
Do you not read any of the posts in this thread describing such discussions, never mind wider media reports of the same?


Oh and just as a brief finale to your delusional aspirations "Allende" (I presume you refer to Francois Hollande) will very soon no longer be the President of France.
Furthermore, Merkel's continuation as Germany's Chancellor after their September elections seems increasingly unlikely.
Again it appears that you ignore other posts upon these matters in this thread as well as in wider media.
Like you ignore the confusion within the EU - and not only in regard to Brexit.

This supposed good deal that we have now is what the country has democratically voted to reject.
And so, reject the EU we shall.

Someone above tells me to 'calm down dear'. No I will not calm down. My country is going to the dogs and I don't like it! As if Brexit wasn't bad enough, we now have to watch the nauseating spectacle of our PM having to grovel and scrape to that Orange Narcissist, for whatever crumbs he'll give us.

So I'm the one who is deluded.......really!
This idea that you can go over, sign a "deal" and come home waving some piece of paper, either now or in 2 years time is so naive.
All the low hanging fruit of UK-US trade are picked, stewed and eaten long ago. any trade deal now means long tortuous negotiation over standards (and how to reconcile those with standards already agreed in other deals) and regulations and in the end, what form arbitration takes....... and the deal is just the start, it needs endless tinkering as technology changes. it's just the initial framework. That counts for every country!

The days of a quick "we're going to cut tariffs, hooray, well done us!" went decades ago.
You are therefore a bigger dreamer than Conrad, living in a world of make believe.We are taking back control in order to become the 51st state controlled by a misogynist sociopath, while surrendering a tarrif free market on our doorstep. How can that possibly be sensible! We did a bit of business with the yanks during the second world war, I think we have just about finished paying for it, so our credit rating should be good for another good rodgering. Fingers crossed the deal may not be quite as bad as the deal the students of Trump University got.:rotfl:
Yep I did mean Hollande not Allende......wires crossed.....I'd just been reading the latters biography. Hollande and Merkel may go but my point is we're snowballing in the wrong direction. From bad to worse.

The reason the Continentals have a stronger identity than we do is 'cos they don't have "the american way" rammed down their throats like we do. We really have let the lowest common denominator take control of this country in so many sectors of society. We've been reduced to going to Donald Trump cap in hand.........but Im the deluded one......Yeah right!

davomcdave

Brexit as a game of chicken:

https://www.ft.com/content/d3d99d7e-e284-11e6-9645-c9357a75844a#site-navigation

High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our T&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights.
https://www.ft.com/content/d3d99d7e-e284-11e6-9645-c9357a75844a#site-navigation

Chicken is an idiotic game, whose players have little to gain and much to lose. But Chicken teaches us that you can gain an advantage by limiting your own options. Imagine detaching your steering wheel and flamboyantly discarding it as you race headlong towards your opponent. Victory would be guaranteed. Nobody would drive straight at a car that cannot steer out of the way. But here’s a worrisome prospect: what if, as you hurl your own steering wheel out of the window, you notice that your rival has done exactly the same thing?
All this matters because both the UK and the EU are doing their best to give the impression that they’ve thrown their steering wheels away. Control of immigration is non-negotiable, says Theresa May. Fine, says the EU — in that case membership of the single market is out of the question. Fine, says May: we’re out. Don’t let the door hit you as you leave, says the EU.


Unfortunately, the process specified under Article 50 leaves the UK in the awkward position of trying to achieve compellence. The default option is the car crash, a disorderly fracture with the EU. Anything else requires all 28 countries involved to take prompt constructive action. May and her chancellor Philip Hammond have made some (faintly) threatening noises about how the EU should play along, but such threats can only work if they compel an energetic and active response. That’s far from certain — compellence is hard. Of course, a broad, constructive agreement is in everyone’s interest. As May rightly said: “Trade is not a zero-sum game: more of it makes us all more prosperous.” It stands to reason, then, that the EU should embrace free trade in goods and services with the UK — as should the many other trading partners that foreign secretary Boris Johnson tells us are “queueing up” to sign deals with the UK. To which Schelling might respond: just because a mutually beneficial deal is achievable doesn’t mean it will be achieved. Mutual benefit isn’t enough. If it was, we wouldn’t need a free-trade deal at all. Every country would have unilaterally abandoned all barriers to trade long ago. Back in the real world, trade deals are stubbornly difficult and time-consuming to negotiate.

Moby

davomcdave wrote: »

Brexit as a game of chicken:

https://www.ft.com/content/d3d99d7e-e284-11e6-9645-c9357a75844a#site-navigation

Good article describing the imperatives few of us take into account
Time and time again people fail to realise that the EU was a political project as much as an economic one. The other 27 states cant give us a mutually beneficial deal for that reason. They have to protect their futures. Any deal will therefore be significantly worse than the present arrangements and we are relying on the Orange mysogonist to make up the difference. That is at worst a tragedy for our future and at best highly risky. I doubt its a risk our MSE gurus would advise!

Tromking

Moby wrote: »

Good article describing the imperatives few of us take into account
Time and time again people fail to realise that the EU was a political project as much as an economic one. The other 27 states cant give us a mutually beneficial deal for that reason. They have to protect their futures. Any deal will therefore be significantly worse than the present arrangements and we are relying on the Orange mysogonist to make up the difference. That is at worst a tragedy for our future and at best highly risky. I doubt its a risk our MSE gurus would advise!

Paywall.
It doesn't chime with your world-view but both the US and UK Governments have been tasked by their peoples to navigate a different course for their countries. The geopolitics of this is fascinating, I`m not so sure it will be in the interests of the EU27 to be unduly punitive to the UK, especially a UK that may be thick as thieves with the US again. The defence of the European continent does not exist without the two biggest contributors to the NATO budget onside. The speech by the PM last week and her demeanour since smacks of someone who is bullish about her country`s clout and future prospects, time will tell though.

davomcdave

Tromking wrote: »

Paywall.
It doesn't chime with your world-view but both the US and UK Governments have been tasked by their peoples to navigate a different course for their countries. The geopolitics of this is fascinating, I`m not so sure it will be in the interests of the EU27 to be unduly punitive to the UK, especially a UK that may be thick as thieves with the US again. The defence of the European continent does not exist without the two biggest contributors to the NATO budget onside. The speech by the PM last week and her demeanour since smacks of someone who is bullish about her country`s clout and future prospects, time will tell though.

Basically the point the article makes is that just because something is in someone's best interest doesn't mean that it will happen. If we make the assumption that trade is good for countries, which basically every economist on the planet would say with some minor caveats, then surely all countries would have basically limitless free trade yet they don't. That strongly implies that countries don't sign up for trade deals that are in their own best interests.

While we make think that the EU is a monolith it is made up of 28 countries, soon to be 27, and so for negotiations to succeed in just a couple of years is asking quite a lot considering how long trade negotiations tend to take.

Herzlos

Conrad wrote: »

WTO, and doing what it takes to keep us as competitive as possible, it's really quite simple

Didn't you also say that the UK would never go down the sweatshop route?

So, without impacting on workers rights or wages, how do you see the "what it takes to keep us as competitive as possible" part working?

It's not based on convenience, because WTO will hurt that. There's quality, which may be hurt if our talent chooses to work in the EU, and then there's cost, but costs of goods are going to go up.

So that means the only costs we can cut are labour or tax (and therefor services), to try and undercut Europe and remain relevant?