If we vote for Brexit what happens

Herzlos

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Because you divide it into regional results to support an agenda yes, but if you look at the referendum results and election results there are people in Scotland who think along the same lines as those in the rest of the UK.

It was recent history where Scotland was voting Labour along with large swathes of England (clearly a common ground), yet if we broke the result down during those elections into the regional results England may have been Conservative (I'll need to check that) but you didn't hear the English complaining that the Scots have put Labour into power, because we don't think divisively in terms of England, Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland it seems. We think in terms of the UK as a whole. And also it wasn't long ago that large parts of Scotland were blue. All that's changed is too many in Scotland have bought into this narrative that it's nasty Westminster causing all your problems and that somehow independence is the answer to all your ills. Well it's not. If you think Brexit is bad for the UK (and clearly you do) then Scottish independence will be an order of magnitude worse.

I'm not in a position to do the research right now but I've seen it worked out that the Scottish vote hasn't changed a general election in a long time (80+ years IIRC).

There are always going to be similarities, we've got a common history, and I'm not denying that. I'm just stating that there's a fairly clear divide between the two (and I'd be saying the same if it was East/West and not North/South). I guess I'd say the line is actually in England - Newcastle-ish, but it'd be a lot harder to split there are historically that's very much England, and Westminster is never going to allow the North the cede.

What's wrong with us cooperating as neighbours instead of bickering? Think of what we could get done if we weren't wasting so much energy on all these debates and referrendum (and I realise I'm also making the case for just pulling the trigger on Brexit and being done with it).

Maybe if we leave and it's a disaster, the UK will allow us to rejoin in the future with a poorer deal than we have now. :j

TrickyTree83

Herzlos wrote: »

I'm not in a position to do the research right now but I've seen it worked out that the Scottish vote hasn't changed a general election in a long time (80+ years IIRC).

There are always going to be similarities, we've got a common history, and I'm not denying that. I'm just stating that there's a fairly clear divide between the two (and I'd be saying the same if it was East/West and not North/South). I guess I'd say the line is actually in England - Newcastle-ish, but it'd be a lot harder to split there are historically that's very much England, and Westminster is never going to allow the North the cede.

What's wrong with us cooperating as neighbours instead of bickering? Think of what we could get done if we weren't wasting so much energy on all these debates and referrendum (and I realise I'm also making the case for just pulling the trigger on Brexit and being done with it).

Maybe if we leave and it's a disaster, the UK will allow us to rejoin in the future with a poorer deal than we have now. :j

Do you read chokkablog or the Whyte Paper?

They'd both agree with you that we should stay in the EU.

But they're quite clear on where the facts lie on what's worse, Brexit or Scottish independence for Scotland.

CLAPTON

Herzlos wrote: »

I'm not in a position to do the research right now but I've seen it worked out that the Scottish vote hasn't changed a general election in a long time (80+ years IIRC).

There are always going to be similarities, we've got a common history, and I'm not denying that. I'm just stating that there's a fairly clear divide between the two (and I'd be saying the same if it was East/West and not North/South). I guess I'd say the line is actually in England - Newcastle-ish, but it'd be a lot harder to split there are historically that's very much England, and Westminster is never going to allow the North the cede.

What's wrong with us cooperating as neighbours instead of bickering? Think of what we could get done if we weren't wasting so much energy on all these debates and referrendum (and I realise I'm also making the case for just pulling the trigger on Brexit and being done with it).

Maybe if we leave and it's a disaster, the UK will allow us to rejoin in the future with a poorer deal than we have now. :j

there is only one reason why scotland can't be independent : that is because, on a fair, one person one vote, they voted to stay part of the uK.
Iscotland won't be a disaster unless Scotalnd joins the EU and copies Greek's high spending low tax and massive debts.

TrickyTree83

CLAPTON wrote: »

there is only one reason why scotland can't be independent : that is because, on a fair, one person one vote, they voted to stay part of the uK.
Iscotland won't be a disaster unless Scotalnd joins the EU and copies Greek's high spending low tax and massive debts.

Failing to point out that if they become independent then massive tax cuts that make austerity look like boom time will have to happen in Scotland for your 'going Greek' scenario not to come to pass - there are no good options apart from remaining in the UK.

mayonnaise

Can we keep the Scotophobia in the other thread please?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5432895

CLAPTON

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Failing to point out that if they become independent then massive tax cuts that make austerity look like boom time will have to happen in Scotland for your 'going Greek' scenario not to come to pass - there are no good options apart from remaining in the UK.

whilst I think there will be short term pain in an Iscotland, there is massive waste in the scottish system so plenty of scope for more effective use of money.
I also think that they are a msssive physological benefits to many of the people, in having to stand on their own feet and make grown up choices without all the handouts from the english.
The ability of the brighest and best to flee south, will be available so that unemployment shouldn't reach south european scales.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Regarding pre-Brexit trade talks:

Conrad wrote: »

I've been waiting for this. Lets just negotiate with others and ready trade deals, as you say what the heck would the EU do, lol.

Here is an article published this afternoon:

Britain can discuss but not seal bilateral trade deals while it remains a member of the European Union, the deputy head of the bloc's executive, which will lead the technical negotiations on Brexit, said on Tuesday.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-trade-idUKKBN15817A?il=0

See?
So, we can talk ...... we could maybe (just a thought) sign to say that a deal would take effect on whatever date, or do the deal & sign saying saying it will be ratified & signed on whatever date.
To circumvent EU rules.
Like the rest of the EU does.

TrickyTree83

CLAPTON wrote: »

whilst I think there will be short term pain in an Iscotland, there is massive waste in the scottish system so plenty of scope for more effective use of money.
I also think that they are a msssive physological benefits to many of the people, in having to stand on their own feet and make grown up choices without all the handouts from the english.
The ability of the brighest and best to flee south, will be available so that unemployment shouldn't reach south european scales.

Scant conciliation for those left behind who presumably voted for it though?

Do you honestly believe that they can find £15bn of waste expenditure? Spending cuts will be the order of the [STRIKE]day[/STRIKE] decade(s?) for iScotland.

setmefree2

Why oh why does anyone fly Ryan Air?

Ryanair boss Michael O'Leary hopes for 'very hard Brexit'

The Ryanair boss said he hopes a bad deal for the UKwill make the British public reconsider its decision to leave the EU

Ryanair boss Michael O'Leary has said he hopes the UK suffers from a "very hard Brexit", and that there was no upside to Britain leaving the European Union.
Speaking at the launch of Ryanair's Irish Winter 2017 schedule in Dublin, O'Leary said the British public were misled by the pro-Brexit side, and he hopes a tough deal will cause them to reconsider the vote.
He said: "I think the harder Brexit becomes, the more likely it is in two years' time – when the British government arrives back into parliament with the pretty poor deal that they're going to get - that there will be another general election, or the British may reconsider and vote again...

http://www.dublinlive.ie/news/ryanair-boss-michael-oleary-hopes-12499245

CLAPTON

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Scant conciliation for those left behind who presumably voted for it though?

Do you honestly believe that they can find £15bn of waste expenditure? Spending cuts will be the order of the [STRIKE]day[/STRIKE] decade(s?) for iScotland.

that's democracy for you : but they will have a fairer, more equal scotland and they will get a great deal from the EU

might you, dithering Nicola and blustering Alex don't seem to be rushing for a new Iscotland vote