If we vote for Brexit what happens

Filo25

CLAPTON wrote: »

that's true of the FPTP system too
if the voters don't like it they can voter differently next time and once again have a small minority determining policy rather than a large minority as under the FPTP system

both seem very 'impure' to me

Any comments on my other points?

I just find it odd how some people seem to be concerned about the democratic deficit in the EU, but don't seem too bothered about the one we have in the UK

Realistically I think this vote will come down to concerns over immigration v economic uncertainty anyway

Filo25

mrginge wrote: »

You may not be aware, but in an act of true democracy the British people were recently asked if they wished to changed the electoral system and it was totally rejected. Therefore FPTP may not be the purest theoretical form, but it is the democratically chosen one.

Actually they were offered a choice between FPTP and a slightly modified constituency system (which was the option proposed for the LibDems own party political reasons), it didn't in anyway represent PR, for which the campaign on both sides was dismal and the turnout terrible.

I just find it odd that many of those who like to talk about the EU democratic deficit have strongly campaigned against any change to the current system as well, either in terms of voting rights or replacing the House of Lords with an elected body.

wotsthat

leveller2911 wrote: »

I was watching the House of Commons select committee a couple of months ago and they were questioning Patrick Minford (economist) and his research suggests that food prices would reduce by around 18% if we left the EU because we would be paying the world price for food. The session is probably on youtube if you care to have a look.

Now I'm not saying he's right or wrong because I'm not educated enough but have a look at his research and see what you think.

http://www.patrickminford.net/

You might not know if he's right or wrong (I don't either) but just apply a sniff test and start from there.

Food prices will fall by 18% if we leave the EU - what do you smell?

zagubov

All our adverts will have to look like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEnuDHC-qh8

CLAPTON

Filo25 wrote: »

Any comments on my other points?

I just find it odd how some people seem to be concerned about the democratic deficit in the EU, but don't seem too bothered about the one we have in the UK

Realistically I think this vote will come down to concerns over immigration v economic uncertainty anyway

there is no democracy in the EU at all.

I do agree our electoral system is imperfect but I fail to see any other system is any significantly better : as I've already said your suggestion could just lead to rule by a small permanent minority rather than a larger one that changes.
I'm not opposed to change but to pretend its more 'pure' is a matter of opinion and not objective facts.

vivatifosi

Rinoa wrote: »

Many of us on the forum can choose to live on the nicer side of town in pleasant leafy suburbs.

Although they happily support more immigration, I very much doubt whether Gen, Hamish and Mayo choose to live next to council estates populated by Romanians, Slovakians and asylum seekers.

I don't think it is that clear cut. I have friends and family who live on council estates. Some say that they like the working spirit and determination to get on at school that the Eastern Europeans bring. However others acknowledge that there is a fine balance. If, all of a sudden, half the children in a child's class do not have English as their first language, then that will impact negatively on their child's education.

setmefree2

leveller2911 wrote: »

The sad thing is Mayo the likes of you and Hamish use this as your default arguement against anyone who has concerns over mass immigration and it does you no favours. This has nothing to do with colour,nationality or race and everything to do with the pressures that mass immigration has had on our services such as schools,NHS and housing etc.

What pressure on schools, NHS and housing???? We've never had it so good.

You just sound hysterical - you've been whipped up into a frenzy.

The EU is about the free movement of goods, services, capital and labour. We are happy to accept vast amounts of inward FDI from Europe - the capital - and we should accept that labour should be able to move with those flows of capital. People should be able to follow the money.

I'm really worried about what is going to happen when European FDI dries up - we have a massive current account deficit that is only sustainable with large amounts of FDI.

Among the many uncertainties surrounding the UK’s possible exit from the EU is what impact it might have on foreign direct investment. Indications are that Brexit could jeopardise the UK’s status as one of the world’s top investment destinations.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3/6df1db7a-e159-11e5-8d9b-e88a2a889797.html#axzz426wixEeW

setmefree2

wotsthat wrote: »

I think government policy rather than membership (or not) of the EU has more impact on immigration numbers given that most immigration is non-EU anyway.

Of course the idea that infrastructure should be built before it's needed is a shorthand way of saying immigration should be zero because we know that's not how it works.

Those pesky foreigners coming here and working hard to make our country such a brilliant place - you got to hate them for that.

setmefree2

mayonnaise wrote: »

The NHS is crumbling because of ever increasing costs of treatment and drugs, an ageing population and an obesity crisis among our natives.
The lack of affordable housing is mainly due to a severe lack of building throughout the last decade.
Blaming migrants or 'the other' for all ills of society...we've seen it so often before in history, and we never learn our lessons, do we?

It's the easy way out. Which is why the uneducated support Leave imho.

CLAPTON

setmefree2 wrote: »

What pressure on schools, NHS and housing???? We've never had it so good.

You just sound hysterical - you've been whipped up into a frenzy.

The EU is about the free movement of goods, services, capital and labour. We are happy to accept vast amounts of inward FDI from Europe - the capital - and we should accept that labour should be able to move with those flows of capital. People should be able to follow the money.

I'm really worried about what is going to happen when European FDI dries up - we have a massive current account deficit that is only sustainable with large amounts of FDI.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3/6df1db7a-e159-11e5-8d9b-e88a2a889797.html#axzz426wixEeW

only a fantasist could seriously suggest there is no housing problem in London/SE or that the NHS has no problems

Why you think that foreign ownership of an increasing proportion of UK industry is worth the temporary boast to current consumption is a mystery too: that foreign ownership means all the profits so abroad every year.
Far better for that wall of money to stop now: the pound to fall and to correct the trade balance before we have truely catastrophic correction in a few years
Your 'solution' is to 'worry' about the future but to do nothing.

the EU is indeed about tariff barriers to the rest of the world and so artificial high prices, but internal free movement of goods, service and people:
Free movement of people is one of the reasons we must leave. Once Turkey and the middle east join, the true problems will emerge (although I understand many people want to keep the EU white and christian but eventually that will change)