If we vote for Brexit what happens

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

That is correct : they are voting brexit so we have democratic control of our own country and so we can change the policies through a democratic process.

Which seems like a perfectly reasonable position so why do you keep going on about white supremacist christians?

Non-racists voting to leave have to accept, on this single point, they're in agreement with the racists and the Little Englanders.

CLAPTON wrote: »

The more intelligent also recognise the mutual value of free trade with all the countries of the world rather than just a few (even though they are economically very important.)

I work for a company that imports and exports (EU and third country) and don't see the EU as a hindrance - just the opposite.

Nor do I see a post exit UK adopting free trade agreements with all the countries of the world. It's not going to happen.

CLAPTON wrote: »

I guess your recognition that the EU has grown too big, is a nice juxtaposition with my own view that the UK population is growing too fast.

Yes it is.

I'm a long way off from the idea that immigration is a panacea for the the UK's ills and I'd like to see more selective immigration. Whilst studies may show the UK benefits overall from immigration there are plenty of immigrants that will never be economically anything other than a drain on resources - I'd quite them not to be here but the UK government decides otherwise.

leveller2911

wotsthat wrote: »

I work for a company that imports and exports (EU and third country) and don't see the EU as a hindrance - just the opposite.

Some businesses will obviously benefit from EU membership and some won't but EU wide business is a small part of peoples lives of the majority of British people.

What about the "Quality of life" for the general public as a whole?.


That subject seems totally ignored in this part of the forum.I'm not sure if its because people on here are professional middle class ex bankers or they just don't give a toss about the rest of society. Hamish,Generali and Mayo in particluar seems fixated about the business side of membership rather than the bigger picture which is about our Society as a whole. The term "quality of life" seems conspicuous by its absence.

I play snooker with a retired bank manager and he cannot comprehend that there are people in our society who couldn't afford to buy a new washing machine if their existing one broke down. I find that really shocking that some people are so distant from reality of the lives of many in the UK.

I'm a long way off from the idea that immigration is a panacea for the the UK's ills and I'd like to see more selective immigration.

I agree 100% and we can't do that from within the EU.If we could I think the IN vote would win hands down and rightly or wrongly this issue alone will take us out of the EU.

Whilst studies may show the UK benefits overall from immigration there are plenty of immigrants that will never be economically anything other than a drain on resources - I'd quite them not to be here but the UK government decides otherwise.

Thats it for me too............

michaels

wotsthat wrote: »

Non-racists voting to leave have to accept, on this single point, they're in agreement with the racists and the Little Englanders.

This is troubling - I am against EU membership because I find in anti-democratic, bureaucratic, anti-liberal (small l) and anti-capitalist (/statist/corporatist).

However I fear the way I could help to achieve the exit vote I would like to see would be to bang on about immigration, controlling our borders, terrorism, over-crowding, scarce NHS resources etc, none of which I actually believe in

I actually think we could live with as much immigration or even more if we were willing to make the required investment in infrastructure and housing and this could actually see the UK economy growing at East Asia rates - especially as we would be able to pick and choose our immigrants, let people in on fixed term contracts etc.

The SE would still be a green and pleasant land (perhaps more pleasant if we built in green) even if we built on an area half the size of London.

Rinoa

leveller2911 wrote: »

What about the "Quality of life" for the general public as a whole?.


That subject seems totally ignored in this part of the forum.I'm not sure if its because people on here are professional middle class ex bankers or they just don't give a toss about the rest of society. Hamish,Generali and Mayo in particluar seems fixated about the business side of membership rather than the bigger picture which is about our Society as a whole. The term "quality of life" seems conspicuous by its absence.

Many of us on the forum can choose to live on the nicer side of town in pleasant leafy suburbs.

Although they happily support more immigration, I very much doubt whether Gen, Hamish and Mayo choose to live next to council estates populated by Romanians, Slovakians and asylum seekers.

wotsthat

michaels wrote: »

This is troubling - I am against EU membership because I find in anti-democratic, bureaucratic, anti-liberal (small l) and anti-capitalist (/statist/corporatist).

Well I'm apparently aligning myself with white supremacists and Bulgarian fascists by voting to stay. I'm not troubled by this at all - in fact I'm already over it.

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

Which seems like a perfectly reasonable position so why do you keep going on about white supremacist christians?

Non-racists voting to leave have to accept, on this single point, they're in agreement with the racists and the Little Englanders.

'stay ' have to accept that they are, on this single point, are in agreement with people who only like working with white christian people e.g. those people that make faux excuses for excluding Turkey.

I work for a company that imports and exports (EU and third country) and don't see the EU as a hindrance - just the opposite.

I fully understand unprincipled self interested naked greed.
Also NOT one single person who is in favour of brexit says there are absolutely no benefits for some people/companies.

Nor do I see a post exit UK adopting free trade agreements with all the countries of the world. It's not going to happen.

I understand that many 'stay' have no ambitious and are inward looking and defeatist. Remember all the great and good, captains of industry, all the media who absolutely predicted armageddon if we didn't join the euro: they all support 'stay'.

I'm a long way off from the idea that immigration is a panacea for the the UK's ills and I'd like to see more selective immigration. Whilst studies may show the UK benefits overall from immigration there are plenty of immigrants that will never be economically anything other than a drain on resources - I'd quite them not to be here but the UK government decides otherwise.

many would consider that extremely racist.
anyway the UK government has no control over EU migration.

wotsthat

Rinoa wrote: »

Many of us on the forum can choose to live on the nicer side of town in pleasant leafy suburbs.

Although they happily support more immigration, I very much doubt whether Gen, Hamish and Mayo choose to live next to council estates populated by Romanians, Slovakians and asylum seekers.

In my town 'that' part of town has been 'that' part of town at least since the arrival of the railway works in 1840. It'll stay 'that' part of town if we leave the EU too.

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

'stay ' have to accept that they are, on this single point, are in agreement with people who only like working with white christian people e.g. those people that make faux excuses for excluding Turkey.

I do accept that some stay voters will wish to exclude Turkey simply because they aren't white and christian. I don't feel the need to justify their stance.

CLAPTON wrote: »

many would consider that extremely racist.

but I don't and neither do you. The only difference is you feel the need to demonstrate it's the 'many' who are subtly racist whereas I don't.

BobQ

leveller2911 wrote: »

Some businesses will obviously benefit from EU membership and some won't but EU wide business is a small part of peoples lives of the majority of British people.

What about the "Quality of life" for the general public as a whole?.

...........

Are you serious? The British people's standards of living depends on employment in or ownership of large or small companies that trade with other EU countries. We export about 45% of our exports to the EU and import about 50% of our imports from the EU. About 3m jobs depend on the EU nation's trading with us.

We also have about £500bn pounds of inward foreign investment from other EU countries which create jobs in the UK. A further 500bn comes from outside the EU but some of that will come to UK because we are in the EU.

I do not see how my quality of life will be improved by paying more for my groceries, or having a health service staffed by vacancies etc.

I might be persuaded that this is a small price to pay if wages rose due to the shortages of labour but I suspect this Government would just allow temporary immigration to suppress wages. The Tory Brexiteers have already said that Brexit would facilitate cutting back on employment rights and I believe they will do just that.

CLAPTON

BobQ wrote: »

Are you serious? The British people's standards of living depends on employment in or ownership of large or small companies that trade with other EU countries. We export about 45% of our exports to the EU and import about 50% of our imports from the EU. About 3m jobs depend on the EU nation's trading with us.

we will continue to trade with the EU27 as it will be mutually beneficial but we will have our democracy restored and will be able to control EU immigration to meet our needs.

We also have about £500bn pounds of inward foreign investment from other EU countries which create jobs in the UK. A further 500bn comes from outside the EU but some of that will come to UK because we are in the EU.

inward investment will continue if it is beneficial for the company making the investment (just like now)
Anyway why do you consider that all profits going abroad is good for the UK?

I do not see how my quality of life will be improved by paying more for my groceries, or having a health service staffed by vacancies etc.

world prices are equal to or lower than the EU so there will be no increase in groceries and mnay will fall : none will increase.
We will have control of our own immigration policy so can welcome useful workers like NHS staff if we wish. As the overall flow of immigrants will fall our need for NHS staff and housing will fall too.

I might be persuaded that this is a small price to pay if wages rose due to the shortages of labour but I suspect this Government would just allow temporary immigration to suppress wages. The Tory Brexiteers have already said that Brexit would facilitate cutting back on employment rights and I believe they will do just that.

if our government does the wrong thing then you can vote against them : when the EU does the wrong thing you have no redress.
Clearly you hate democracy.