If we vote for Brexit what happens

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

CKhalvashi wrote: »

It's good to see the Tories being held to account by one of their supporters on this IMO.

Yes it is good to see these job creators finally sticking their head above the parapet and taking on the populist fantasies and delusions that have captured Downing street at the moment....

Here we have the head of a long established family engineering firm that employs hundreds of workers in good solid British engineering jobs saying his business and those jobs are almost wholly reliant upon continued membership of the single market.

And that his European competitors would love to steal his contracts if we left the single market and his company was therefore put at a competitive disadvantage.

About time they spoke up and lets hope they continue to do so.

setmefree2

Brussels punishing Britain over Brexit will play right into my hands says Marine Le Pen

Imposing a punitive divorce settlement on Britain in the forthcoming Brexit negotiations would be proof the Europe can only advance by "threats, intimidation and blackmail", the leader of France's National Front has warned.

"The way the EU has reacted to Brexit has put paid to the few in Europe who still believe that there is an ounce of democracy in this structure, that is the EU.
"Europe would be showing its true face, as it already has done so in Greece and tried to do with Britain," she said when asked if Brussels taking a hard line with the UK would play into the hands of her party.

"This EU doesn't move forward by consent because it knows its people no longer adhere to this political structure, it advances via threats, intimidation and blackmail."
European federalists in Brussels, Paris and Berlin have argued that Britain will need to be left conspicuously worse off after Brexit in order to clearly demonstrate to other EU members states the perils of leaving the club.

Michel Barnier, the EU's chief Brexit negotiator gave repeated warnings at his opening press conference last year that Brexit would demonstrate that "it is much better to show solidarity than stand alone".
Meanwhile Donald Tusk, the president of the European Council said in a letter to leaders last year that a Brexit deal must leave everyone in "no doubt" about the benefits of EU Membership.
However independent analysts have warned of the risk that an EU punishment strategy - designed to faced down the rising forces of populism that now threaten Europe's political establishment - might have precisely the opposite effect.
“An excessively punitive attitude in the Brexit negotiations could backfire by providing extra ammunition to the various anti-establishment parties across Europe," said Vincenzo Scarpetta, a senior policy analyst with Open Europe.

"They would be able to claim that the EU is an undemocratic club where a sovereign nation gets punished for merely exercising a right enshrined in the Treaties.”
Ms Le Pen's remarks to a meeting of the Anglo-American Press Association in Paris appeared to confirm that risk - which is also advanced in private by British officials and negotiators warning Brussels not to overplay it's hand.
"It hardly makes the EU look like a club you'd want to be a member in if they try and shoot the first member who decides to leave of their own accord," said one senior British official, rejecting Franco-German promises that the UK would be worse off after Brexit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/06/brussels-punishing-britain-brexit-will-play-right-hands-says/

CKhalvashi

leveller2911 wrote: »

So a wealthy businessman should have more influence than a working class Tory voter purely on the basis that he donates money to the party?

I didn't say that, I said it's about time someone forced the government to listen to the whole country, not the 27% that voted Leave, or the 26% that voted Remain for that matter (not that they're doing it anyway at the moment).

Is that good for democracy?. Before so long the UK politcal scene will be akin to the US where all the politicians are owned by wealthy businessmen/women. Is that really what you want?.

Is that really not the case now?

Labour are supported by trade unions, Conservatives are supported by big business, UKIP are supported by Greek billionaires that don't like women wearing trousers as they think it threatens the future of the world.

TrickyTree83

CKhalvashi wrote: »

I didn't say that, I said it's about time someone forced the government to listen to the whole country, not the 27% that voted Leave, or the 26% that voted Remain for that matter (not that they're doing it anyway at the moment).

Is that really not the case now?

Labour are supported by trade unions, Conservatives are supported by big business, UKIP are supported by Greek billionaires that don't like women wearing trousers as they think it threatens the future of the world.

The percentages get more abstract as time progresses. I guess someone decided to invent those percentages to make the result look bad in the hope of smearing the opposing side post-result.

I bet the calculation to arrive at 27% for leave is so hilariously wrong, including babies and non-citizens, like somehow they had a vote but didn't exercise it, and that abstentions somehow now have the right to be heard on the issue. Too late friends, should have pulled your finger out in June.

The cohort is the turnout, the split is exactly as it was reported. There's no other interpretation that doesn't involve those who use figures like 27% for leave looking bloody ridiculous fluent speakers of idiot.

Mortgagefreeman

CKhalvashi wrote: »

I have done, many times, and you've accused me just in the last 24 hours of being a benefit scrounger and another poster thought it would be nice to post my personal info onto this thread

If it's personal info why post it on a public forum?

Anyway, enough of that. How's the Airline doing? Has it taken off yet? Will it be affected by Brexit?

CKhalvashi wrote: »

Congrats from us too



Ordering 2, with options for 8 more, for possible delivery towards the end of this year. The company itself is being financed by an investment consortium, so I'm in no way doing it alone. I own 1.5% of it.

We need 2 aircraft on order to apply for the AOC.



Possibly at some point in 2017, if it doesn't go so well

I usually think airlines will fail before they've even lifted off, but I think this one has the right mix of destinations, fleet size and aircraft to be able to compete effectively in a very underserved market.

BA, Air France and KLM have all pulled out, largely as they're operating 150 seat aircraft on the route. Pulling it back to basics, an aircraft in 87 seat configuration, offering similar fuel burn and range would (from the figures we've seen) make a lot of difference.

No EU airline is operating the aircraft type, it's one of the most fuel efficient in its class ((in 12 + 75 config) it actually uses 6% less fuel per seat than an A319 in (12 + 102 config)), with similar seat pitch, and it saves on landing fees because (we're using the LR version) it's just under the weight band at most airports. Win-win IMO.

It's not about launching Emirates, it's about making a start.

Any chance of some tickets at mates rates? I've had a crap year and could do with a holiday.

leveller2911

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Lets not start on the influence of wealthy businessmen when the leave campaign was funded by millionaires with a vested interest in the outcome and had the benefit of tabloid media barons pouring almost unlimited publicity their way.

I don't believe political parties or campaigns should receive money from wealthy donors but for the sake of balance lets not forget the fact that wealthy companies/individuals such as J P Morgan, Goldman Sachs,Citigroup etc financed the remain campaign...........

I'm sure you realise that two wrongs don't make a right.......;)

But you never have posted balanced views have you Hamish.......

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

leveller2911 wrote: »

I don't believe political parties or campaigns should receive money from wealthy donors but for the sake of balance lets not forget the fact that wealthy companies/individuals such as J P Morgan, Goldman Sachs,Citigroup etc financed the remain campaign...

Indeed they did.

As they saw the interests of the city of London, the financial services industry, banks, insurance companies, pension funds, etc, along with their employees job security and the billions in taxes they pay every year, were best served by remaining in the EU.

And now we have the head of a 200 year old family engineering business and major exporter, with hundreds of good engineering jobs in Britain, saying....

"There are barriers to entry without the single market, there are tariffs," "One of my factories has 200 people employed making engineering parts that go to France, Germany and Italy,"

"Were it not for the single market I would not be trading with these people.... There is a desire by my competitors in mainland Europe to exclude me from the market."

The "economic arguments of staying in the single market are overwhelming" and it would be a "catastrophe" if the country left

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38540813

leveller2911

Herzlos wrote: »

Good point about Opel. I forgot about them, but it looks like the Vauxhalls we see are UK made, so I can't see Opel being affected by any UK deal. I've no idea what'd happen regarding Ford.

Current Vauxhall Corsa 3dr models are made in Eisenach, Germany , (my son has bought one last June) and the 4dr models are produced in Spain. You can check the VIN numbers to see where they are made.

In 2016 Vauxhall corsa sales amounted to over 77,000 and VW Golfs 69,000.Many of the Ford focus family are also produced in Germany and imported into the UK.

Add together all the other German produced cars we buy every year I would love to be a fly on the wall in Merkels office when the German car makers come knocking..

Its also worth mentioning that all the Citroen,Fiat Ducato,Peugeot Boxer vans on the UK roads are built in the same factory in Italy. Mercedes Benz Sprinter and vito vans are built in Germany so there are thousands of new vans sold in the UK every year that are made in Germany or Italy so don't discount the inpact of the loss of sales in the UK due to tit for tat tarrifs.

leveller2911

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Indeed they did.

As they saw the interests of the city of London, the financial services industry, banks, insurance companies, pension funds, etc, along with their employees job security and the billions in taxes they pay every year, were best served by remaining in the EU.

Of coarse they did Hamish. They didn't think for one minute about their own share value did they.

No they have a more altruistic reason why they wanted the UK to remain in the EU.......

If nothing else Hamish you do make me smile..

CKhalvashi

Mortgagefreeman wrote: »

If it's personal info why post it on a public forum?

I didn't.

Anyway, enough of that. How's the Airline doing? Has it taken off yet? Will it be affected by Brexit?

Put into context, the plan was to purchase an AOC holding company. As a largely Russian-facing company there would have been no major fallout from Brexit in any event.

2 months later, the AOC was revoked before anything was delivered. Split between about 70 of us, the investment wasn't huge though.