If we vote for Brexit what happens

TrickyTree83

Moby wrote: »

Your posts are classic examples of confirmation bias. You make the 'facts' fit your belief system and read/watch things that are likely to confirm your bias. You also totally forget that the Empire builders were a narrow elite of privileged landowners or mercantile 'men' who used slavery and military power to exploit the weak and disadvantaged. Read up on the East India company as a good example. Read up on the British in Africa, India, China etc. Also remember the great majority of us British would never experience the benefits of Empire ....the great majority of us would have been working long hours in the new factories or as farm labourers. We wouldnt have had the vote or any rights and when WW1 came we would have been canon fodder sent over the tops of the trenches to fight to protect the interests of the very same elite landowner class holding us in thrall. Your view of history is a romantic fantasy Conrad. We have our fair share of success stories, but these things come and go in waves. The Germans, French, Americans, Australians etc would claim the same in different areas of life. India, China could talk about ancient civilisations when we were still living in mud huts. The thing I've noticed in recent years is the most impressive peoples don't tend to exploit nationalism or patriotism but are those who are able to rise above such suspect qualities and have a more internationalist global outlook on life. We are all interdependent......nationalism is on the rise again for the present but it is for negative reasons. We need to ride out the jingoistic storm, keep perspective and realise that co-operation will achieve far more in the long term than nationalist self promotion.

You appear to want utopia in an in-perfect world, is your favourite song "Imagine"?

There's nothing wrong in striving for what you seek, but there is a difference between making choices that adversely affect the lives of many for the sake of the few on the basis of a utopian dream and making the correct decision. Pragmatism must always take precedence. Not only in decisions that we as a people take in future but as you analyse the present and the past.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=first+country+to+ban+slavery

We're a good people in this country. I sincerely believe deep down we've inherited that from the generation that didn't break under WW2. We rightly honour them, almost religiously, since they really do stand for the best in all of us. The stories of fighter pilots during the Battle of Britain flying their planes into enemy bombers knowing they would die to protect the citizens below them whether they knew them or not, and not only Brits but Poles, Americans, Canadians, Australians, etc... Sure there were some bad episodes during WW2, war is an ugly business. But that dogged determination, steel of character and self sacrifice would still be in almost all of us if we were called upon for it. Why would we? It certainly wouldn't be for the elites, the likes of the Queen, the Barclay brothers, David Cameron or Rupert Murdoch. It would be to protect my family, my friends, your family and your friends and our way of life. The freedom to be who you choose, do what you choose and (to a lesser extent sadly these days, hopefully this can be reversed) to say what you want.

To me places like the UK, the USA and other so called "Western" nations (note the word nation) are the most utopian places on this planet right now and we should be looking to protect that. If that means we remove ourselves from the EU because of catastrophes like Angela Merkel making decisions that negatively affect the people who voted to share a continent together then so be it.

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

You dish it out often enough and you get it back from me in spades. Suck it up!;)

seriously : you are proud of justifying the EU policy to Africa by saying that historically the Britsh Empire was worse; mind you very much fits with the lefts distorted morality

Originally Posted by Moby View Post
At least you could be more open about our history! Read up on the activities of the East India company before potificating too much about how the EU exploits Africa!

Ballard

mayonnaise wrote: »

Anyone else getting utterly bored with Clapper's feigned indignation?

The ignore list is your friend.

CLAPTON

Ballard wrote: »

The ignore list is your friend.

maybe you should try to make rational, logical, well informed and persuasive arguments.

DarkShadow

Thanks to those who voted Leave, UK is going to deep sh*t

Tromking

DarkShadow wrote: »

Thanks to those who voted Leave, UK is going to deep sh*t

Another Remainer mental colossus.......and they accuse Brexiteers of being mentally challenged.

gfplux

Herzlos wrote: »

Is it of less concern than the increased automation and moving of assembly plants?

Lets be realistic, the UK buys just under 20% of German cars (I don't have actual figure to hand), so the German car market is only going to see a drop of 20% if we suddenly go to buying 0 German cars. Since they have a fairly unique position of being a low depreciating status good with a bit of a cult following, and predominantly bought on finance, their sales are unlikely to be hugely affected by a small price increase (on top of the price hike they've had due to the £ collapse).

People currently pay over the odds for German cars (though to be fair, some are cheaper on PCP than UK cars) and would never think of going elsewhere due to brand perceptions. Will they change brand over what may be as little as £20/month price difference? Will they just go to a slightly lower spec?

There are plenty of credible threats to German car industry jobs*, but I honestly don't think a poor trade deal with the UK is the biggest one. Also bear in mind that Germany can demand that part of the trade deal we get involves tariff free car trade, thus their problem is solved and we're still largely stuffed.


To be honest I think French car manufacturing have a lot more to worry about; a price hike of their French produced range (if they actually make any there now?) will likely drive customers over to the Japenese/Korean brands as they are a lot more competitive. I can see people jumping from Renault to Hyundai based on price, but I can't see people jumping from BMW to Hyundai based on price.

*Automation, offshoring, affordability, emissions, environment controls, fuel prices, city restrictions and so on.

A reasonable post about a very complex subject. Anyone making broad statements about BMW and Bavaria are not taking account of USA produced BMW's and the fact that many cars including BMW are produced containing parts from multiple Country's including the UK.

One thing Brexit has done is teach many of us just how global the car manufacturing industry is.

As an aside Bavaria is presently suffering a huge skills shortage that is aparantly getting worse. (Source a surprisingly long +5 minute segment on France 2 TV 20.00 news early this week)

Thinking of skills shortage prompted a quick Google, this has nothing to do with Brexi but worth a look
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/countries-facing-greatest-skills-shortages/
Britain looks in good shape, I think!

Thrugelmir

gfplux wrote: »

As an aside Bavaria is presently suffering a huge skills shortage that is aparantly getting worse.

In the UK it's estimated that 50% of people have maths skills no better than primary school level. Sign of the impact of technology I wonder.

gfplux

A couple of posts ago I posted this link from the World Economic Forum.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/countries-facing-greatest-skills-shortages/
I except before anyone jumps all over me that these are "experts" and experts have had a beating on this thread.
But.
As you will see Germany has a skills shortage of 40% and Britain 12% overnight I have wondered what this means.
As I understand it skills can be anything from Hairdressing to a Scientist.
So does it reflect education, the type of jobs available, is a 40% rate better or worse than 12%. Is freedom of movement a factor?
What a can of worms but interesting all the same.
The above posting is what it is, no hidden agenda.

Moby

CLAPTON wrote: »

seriously : you are proud of justifying the EU policy to Africa by saying that historically the Britsh Empire was worse; mind you very much fits with the lefts distorted morality

Not once have you provided evidence of this nonsense. As if the EU's trade police is comparable with the British Empire re. exploitation. Absolute garbage!