If we vote for Brexit what happens

Rinoa

mayonnaise wrote: »

Town That Voted For Brexit Loses 99 Jobs Because Of Brexit

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-38328388

Oh well. At least they took back control.

Tens of thousands of companies go bust every year. This year they all have the convenient Brexit excuse.

Do you think United Biscuits or McVities will be going under anytime soon? Not a chance. They sell biscuits !!!!!!, how difficult do you think it is to buy UK ingredients to make biscuits.

Thrugelmir

CKhalvashi wrote: »

What I'm saying is though that I don't want to integrate any further with the US in the way I do things.

If you are disenchanted with the UK. Don't like the US. Why don't you relocate your business to somewhere within the EU. Where you feel comfortable with everything.

CLAPTON

CKhalvashi wrote: »

How? Where is the evidence of this?

Is this an admission that we'd have more of the immigrants that you loathe so much if we weren't in the EU? :eek:

I loathe very few people and none simply because they are immigrants whether from the EU or the rest of the world

your sentence is otherwise incomprehensible.

Sapphire

In passing, the general behaviour of the EU bureaucrats in Brussels, e.g. to our PM, and to our country in general, has done absolutely nothing to promote their cash cow (for them) with me. In fact, the reverse is the case – they behave like spoiled children, while being (apparently) grown men and some women. I am genuinely shocked at their behaviour – as I was about the intended superstate that was to be imposed with no opportunity for citizens to have their say when I first heard about it last year. Before that, I'd always looked on the EU as a fairly benign, sometimes daft trading organisation.

The sooner we leave the EU the better. I think we must do this, or risk civil disobedience at the very least in the UK.

The EU itself will ultimately never work as a superstate, and it is best for the citizens of countries in Europe for it to fall apart sooner rather than later. Even in the US, where the population does not consist of different nation states, there are different laws between states – and when it comes to mainland Europe we are talking about countries that have hundreds of years of individualistic history behind them. Ultimately, the citizens of those countries will not allow themselves to be subsumed into some unrecognisable mass of malleable clones, obedient to the dictats of unelected bureaucrats and dictators in Brussels, with their expensive dinners, meetings, pensions, etc., courtesy of our taxpayers.

As for freedom of movement, I think strictly only those who come here to work should be allowed into Britain. Those who come here to beg on the streets, or hang about on street corners (like the Romanians and others in Yorkshire, for example), while claiming benefits, should not be allowed into our country. Neither should criminals – and those who commit crimes in the UK should be returned to their countries and not allowed to return. There should be much stricter border controls than there are now, and benefits should not be as readily available – I'm tired of seeing the cliche foreign mothers, all with prams, and often with grandparents tagging along. All this while our NHS and education systems are being destroyed.

We also need to invest more in training British citizens to become doctors and nurses, etc.

BobQ

Sapphire wrote: »

In passing, the general behaviour of the EU bureaucrats in Brussels, e.g. to our PM, and to our country in general, has done absolutely nothing to promote their cash cow (for them) with me. In fact, the reverse is the case – they behave like spoiled children, while being (apparently) grown men and some women. I am genuinely shocked at their behaviour – as I was about the intended superstate that was to be imposed with no opportunity for citizens to have their say when I first heard about it last year. Before that, I'd always looked on the EU as a fairly benign, sometimes daft trading organisation.

This is surely part of the problem. Instead of trying to leave the EU in the most constructive way we can we resort to grandstanding about not needing the EU, disliking the EU, dismissing the EU etc.

The sooner we leave the EU the better. I think we must do this, or risk civil disobedience at the very least in the UK.

In other words you do not care about the way we leave, we are better than them.... more triumphalism.

The EU itself will ultimately never work as a superstate, and it is best for the citizens of countries in Europe for it to fall apart sooner rather than later.

Yes that may happen but as we are leaving what business is it ours. The sooner it happens the more unstable the world economy will become.

As for freedom of movement, I think strictly only those who come here to work should be allowed into Britain.

Fine we can do that.

Those who come here to beg on the streets, or hang about on street corners (like the Romanians and others in Yorkshire, for example), while claiming benefits, should not be allowed into our country.

Where is the evidence that Yorkshire people are any more likely to do this anyone else.

We also need to invest more in training British citizens to become doctors and nurses, etc.

I agree but you really need to understand that the reason why we need to allow immigration (not citizenship) is the falling birthrate. How long do you think it takes to train a nurse or a doctor? The reason we allow nurses and doctors to come to the UK at present is that we have not trained enough nurses and doctors in the past 10 years. The problems we have are now not 10 years from now.

So I agree that we need to train more skilled people of the type we need and that we should train British people, but blaming immigrants for filling vacancies in Britain that are due to a lack of training places or even a lack of available people to train makes no sense.

Sapphire

This is surely part of the problem. Instead of trying to leave the EU in the most constructive way we can we resort to grandstanding about not needing the EU, disliking the EU, dismissing the EU etc.

As I tried to convey in my post, nothing the EU bureaucrats have said in relation to Britain has encouraged me to want to stay in the EU, but conversely has made me actively dislike the EU, whereas in the past I was merely indifferent to it, not realising what its aims actually were – that is not 'grandstanding'. I agree that we must leave the EU in the most constructive way we can, but the EU bureaucrats are not in any way statesman-like and resort mainly to attempts at bullying and deep unpleasantness. That is not in any way a persuasive tactic and just confirms that the vote to Leave was absolutely the right thing for the UK.

Yes that may happen but as we are leaving what business is it ours. The sooner it happens the more unstable the world economy will become.

On the contrary, I think the further the can is kicked down the road, the worse the implosion will eventually be. The EU could still have a chance to save the situation by giving up on its 'superstate' ideas, and perhaps losing the EURO, at least to the southern European countries (painful as that would be). However, they will try to plod along, and make the situation worse, until eventually they provoke a war, e.g. between European countries, or with Russia if they continue to provoke that country.

Where is the evidence that Yorkshire people are any more likely to do this anyone else.

There were specific reports, for example, about the migrant situation in Bradford (rather than the whole of Yorkshire) and the resentment it was causing among locals – I'm sorry I don't have a link.

How long do you think it takes to train a nurse or a doctor? The reason we allow nurses and doctors to come to the UK at present is that we have not trained enough nurses and doctors in the past 10 years. The problems we have are now not 10 years from now.

So I agree that we need to train more skilled people of the type we need and that we should train British people, but blaming immigrants for filling vacancies in Britain that are due to a lack of training places or even a lack of available people to train makes no sense.

I don't 'blame immigrants' for anything – I specifically said that we should accept immigrants who come here to work. However, governments from Blair's time onwards have been remiss in training Britons for positions in such professions. It was completely pointless for Blair to encourage everyone to go to 'uni' to attain any old degree (especially things like useless media degrees and the like). Instead he should have focused on encouraging training for 'useful' professions, for example in medicine and nursing, and provided encouragement for people to go into these professions (I can remember when nurses were English, and had their own accommodation attached to hospitals, and when nursing was a profession people could live from).

Now we have many people with a 'uni' education who expect the world, but find that their degrees are meaningless. Blair should also have encouraged more non-degree training, in the way of apprenticeships, so that we could still be making things and not relying on countries like China for everything. Within living memory, I can still remember when 'Made in England' was a mark of quality, respected worldwide. What happened?

So we must start to give British people outside the pockets of affluent areas hope and proper professions, instead of allowing so many of them to languish on benefits – which is no good for anyone. In the meantime, migrants will need to temporarily fill any gaps in employment. Especially with the increasing automation and fewer and fewer jobs, I don't think we can accept unlimited numbers of migrants, and it would make sense for them to be taken on contractually, with their residence being based on length of contract. Isn't that what happens, sensibly, in many countries that are not trapped in the straitjacket that is the EU?

Moby

CLAPTON wrote: »

its really a simple question

how many 100s of million of immigrants would you find
acceptable


Schengen has no bearing on free movement of EU citizens : all 500 million are entitled by law to come here
how many would be too many?

We're being flooded by EU citizens and its destroying fine old blighty. Absolute nonsense. A legal entitlement doesn't mean something happens in reality. To answer your question though 'too many'would be at a point when it could be shown that the well being of a countries citizens were being adversly affected. That is not an issue for us.

Moby

CKhalvashi wrote: »

However all no.2 are possible to solve with an expanding economy and low long-term unemployment.

If I went to Germany for ex, I'd receive free German lessons. It's also not hard to pick up basics in most languages (I can exchange basic pleasantries in all countries I deal with regularly, and my language skills are better in some than others, including some relatively obscure ones). Once you have the basics, it's easier to integrate with locals and you do pick up a lot more along the way.

It's not difficult, and the government should be encouraging it at a basic level, alongside employers and the education system generally (for children).

What you are describing there is the ideal to reach for. Instead we have chosen through xenephobic fear the world as described by Thrugelmir.

mwpt

Sapphire wrote: »

So we must start to give British people outside the pockets of affluent areas hope and proper professions, instead of allowing so many of them to languish on benefits – which is no good for anyone.

I don't think brexit is going to solve this particular problem. In an increasingly hi-tech world jobs can be exported pretty easily.

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

We're being flooded by EU citizens and its destroying fine old blighty. Absolute nonsense. A legal entitlement doesn't mean something happens in reality. To answer your question though 'too many'would be at a point when it could be shown that the well being of a countries citizens were being adversly affected. That is not an issue for us.

so basically you refuse to face the issue : you seem to have a habit of doing that.
The housing welfare of the people is clearly and umbiguously being adversely affected by the number of people here. Turning a blind eye again.