If we vote for Brexit what happens

Conrad

setmefree2 wrote: »

Funny that. It's great that our two resident "leftie" posters Moby and Toxic are on the side of the middle classes....how times have changed. Back in the day Lefties were on the side of the poor and working classes.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/07/brexit-middle-class-liberals-social-group-emphatically-back/

Laurie Penny on QT last week was a picture of barely disguised condescension. It just oozed out of her. The sub text being she is fully enlightened and able to cure that age old ailment; false consciousness.


These people border on the puritanical and tend to be reliant on the national tax teat / bureaucrat trough, particularly in later life doing the rounds on quangos, committees, think tanks and assorted EU gravy trains

TrickyTree83

wotsthat wrote: »

Come on. You've been banging on about the dawning of the third era of prosperity and coming fifth industrial revolution for half a decade. You're a perma-believer about any bee which happens to be buzzing in your bonnet at the time which makes your forecasts valueless.

I already feel good about the UK thanks and don't think human progress ceased on the 24th June 2016 but neither do I think the act of leaving the EU is going to catapult the UK into a new sphere of prosperity.

As you've often mentioned those making the loudest, brashest predictions are those most likely to be wrong. I think we'll be just fine although not quite as good as if we stayed.

"Not quite as good as if we stayed."

Given the current state of affairs on the continent that seems quite difficult to believe.

Herzlos

CLAPTON wrote: »

which bits do you find most abhorent
-the idea that companies should not discriminate against the native born
-that the government should have records of where people work
-that the government should have records of where people live
-that such information if held shouldn't be a state secret

That's some world class mental gymnastics there.

The idea of the government keeping a specific register of employment/schooling of a specific group of people, in order to shame their employers for hiring them and to de-prioritize their education is abhorrent. That's one step away from making them wear yellow stars. I hope you get the reference.

What you're trying to defend here is absolute discrimination, which you're trivialising, despite the implications (including the fact that it was the Home Secretary that suggested it. I wouldn't bat an eyelid if it was a UKIP candidate in a county I've never heard of, but a minister of actual power. Even if you don't think she'd ever get implemented, it just shows what she thinks of a large portion of the population. Who in their right mind would think that sort of thing was acceptable?)

Sure, the government (sort of) has a register of where people work (for tax purposes) and (sort of) has a register of where people live (for tax/voting), but they only have census/voluntary information on any discriminatory traits, and none of it can be used to "name and shame" (her words) companies that hire the wrong type of people.

Why on earth do you think it's anything *but* an abhorent idea? Have you no grasp of recent history?

Herzlos

Conrad wrote: »

You will become a believer, the only question is when, and I mean this in all sincerity. There will come a day when you feel really good about UK plc, proud in fact of what we've pulled off.

Is that after the indoctrination sessions for the non-believers?

Don't get me wrong, I'll be the first to admit I was foolish if we make a success of it, but you need to appreciate how it looks to some of us.

Are you willing to admit it was a disaster if it turns out to be? Will you claim it was an unmitigated success because only poor people have to eat less?

CLAPTON

Herzlos wrote: »

That's some world class mental gymnastics there.

The idea of the government keeping a specific register of employment/schooling of a specific group of people, in order to shame their employers for hiring them and to de-prioritize their education is abhorrent. That's one step away from making them wear yellow stars. I hope you get the reference.

As you know, the background was the suggestion that some employers discriminated against UK born people. There were suggestions that some companies would e.g. only employ poles and the working language was Polish. There were suggestions that these companies preferred non UK people because they would work for less than the minimum wage.
There is the ongoing issue of why there are unemployed UK people but plenty of jobs for immigrants.

There is no similarities with wearing a yellow star

What you're trying to defend here is absolute discrimination, which you're trivialising, despite the implications (including the fact that it was the Home Secretary that suggested it. I wouldn't bat an eyelid if it was a UKIP candidate in a county I've never heard of, but a minister of actual power. Even if you don't think she'd ever get implemented, it just shows what she thinks of a large portion of the population. Who in their right mind would think that sort of thing was acceptable?)

Sure, the government (sort of) has a register of where people work (for tax purposes) and (sort of) has a register of where people live (for tax/voting), but they only have census/voluntary information on any discriminatory traits, and none of it can be used to "name and shame" (her words) companies that hire the wrong type of people.

Why on earth do you think it's anything *but* an abhorent idea? Have you no grasp of recent history?

most EU governments keep records of where their residents live and NOT for tax purposes; some insist you register within 24 hours of moving house; indeed some even have compulsory ID cards: No idea whether you approve or not but I know you would be outraged if it was introduced here.

michaels

Had we not voted for brexit and the pound not have fallen there is a pretty good chance that the news on steel would have been of closure not investment.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-38224787

Weirdly the bbc who normally mention brexit and the fall in gdp in every article didn't think of it for this piece....

Thrugelmir

setmefree2 wrote: »

U.K.'s Risky Current-Account Deficit Isn’t as Big as Was Thought

Does the reduction in the deficit make it anymore sustainable in the longer term?

prosaver

isn't strange how the EU have suddenly imposed a tariff after we voted to leave...
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/07/european-union-import-duties-chinese-steel-port-talbot-tata
today have jobs saved in south wales..
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tata-steel-jobs-port-talbot-9411634?service=responsive
brexit?
trump?

michaels

setmefree2 wrote: »

Funny that. It's great that our two resident "leftie" posters Moby and Toxic are on the side of the middle classes....how times have changed. Back in the day Lefties were on the side of the poor and working classes.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/07/brexit-middle-class-liberals-social-group-emphatically-back/

Talking of Liberals, 26% of Mr Farron's ('I will do everything in my power to overturn the democratic will of the people') voters also voted for brexit.....

Thrugelmir

prosaver wrote: »

isn't strange how the EU have suddenly imposed a tariff after we voted to leave...

There's a sizable EU steel industry as well.......... You could ask why it's taken so long to act.