If we vote for Brexit what happens

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

The UK government isn't just after the best deal possible. They go the negotiating table with a political agenda.

I don't know how you can be so sure the UK side won't be up for a bit of political point scoring too given how the referendum was conceived in the first place.

Both you and I agree that the EU27 negotiating stanz will be determined by politics rather than economics.

The Uk, through necessity will be more concerned with economics.
So whilst I would agree that the UK government will have a eye on their own political advantage, the economics may well be the deciding factor.

buglawton

This morning from Boris Johnson:
‘Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic… Titanic success of it.’

You simply could not make it up.

CKhalvashi

buglawton wrote: »

This morning from Boris Johnson:
‘Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic… Titanic success of it.’

You simply could not make it up.

Yup, hopefully the plans for it are sinking rapidly

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

Both you and I agree that the EU27 negotiating stanz will be determined by politics rather than economics.

I didn't agree that. Both parties will arrive at the negotiating table with political as well as economic targets. The EU more than the UK probably.

The whole thing is highly political. It's naive to think the UK will arriving with calculators and spreadsheets and nothing else. The referendum was a political decision and Europe has cost many a politician their job (quite recently actually) - there's scope for a few more.

Mortgagefreeman

CKhalvashi wrote: »

Yup, hopefully the plans for it are sinking rapidly

I expect you'd like all those who voted leave to be shot or sent to some Soviet style Gulag.

The majority voted leave, and leave we will.

gfplux

From Robert Peston

"It is spectacularly delicious that leading Brexiteers are arguing that the High Court today got it wrong today in ruling that we cannot leave the EU without the assent of Parliament - in that almost their entire campaign to get us out of the EU was that British courts and Westminster must be sovereign, and no longer subjugated to Brussels.
We'll also hear plenty from them about a corrupt stitch up by the pro-European establishment to frustrate the revealed will of the British people that we need to be out of Europe.
But the question for Brexiteers is why on earth they want courts, MPs and Lords to have more independent power if those pillars of the British state are all so appallingly twisted and feeble.
You have to laugh, or maybe weep.
Anyway although the government is appealing the decision, the High Court ruling is an enormous spanner in the Brexit works - because there probably won't be a definitive final ruling from the Supreme Court till mid January or so.
And I have to say if I were the PM I would be planning now how best to woo europhile MPs and Lords round to the idea that they may be endangering social cohesion and trust in our most important institutions if they were to attempt to reverse the decision to leave or compel a very diluted version of Brexit.
Because the chances of the appeal succeeding do not look magnificent. The high court judgement is straightforward and compelling - that our constitution, carved and framed over many centuries, is founded on a simple idea that Parliament must have precedence over the executive, over the prime minister, on issues that affect domestic law.
And if you can think of any action as significant for domestic law as leaving the EU, you are not in the real world - which Nigel Farage, Michael Gove and Boris Johnson all repeated like a mantra during their Brexit battle.
They can't have it both ways - though doubtless they will try."

MobileSaver

beecher2 wrote: »

They aren't magically transformed into supporting Remain either.

Agreed however I haven't seen anyone claiming that the referendum result proves "the will of the people" or "the majority of the country" want to Remain in the EU.

CKhalvashi wrote: »

Statistically, more would be remain than leave, preferring to maintain the status quo. This is based on gut feeling...

This is my gut feeling as well. I believe most people expected Remain and the status quo to win and so too many Remainers didn't bother to vote thinking their vote wouldn't make a difference (much to their horror once the result was in!) Leavers on the other hand wanted a change and so by definition were more passionate and made a bigger effort to vote.

My view is that the Brexiteers still can't believe they won, realise it was by a very slim margin and know that if the same question was asked today the result would be very different. That is why they are terrified at the prospect and are trying to convince everyone including themselves that somehow the "majority of the country" voted to Leave.

TrickyTree83

MobileSaver wrote: »

I'm sure some people are laughing... at the ludicrous suggestion that the 13 million people who didn't vote somehow magically transformed into supporting the Leave campaign. :rotfl:

Amazing.

You still don't get it.

They didn't transform, they didn't vote. Their views on June 23rd do not contribute to the result.

You can rofl and lol all you like. Pursuing this line of defence against the stark reality of what the result actually was is making you look childish and silly.

TrickyTree83

CKhalvashi wrote: »

Statistically, more would be remain than leave, preferring to maintain the status quo.

This is based on gut feeling rather than knowledge, but I would be surprised if it's a 60/40 split to Remain.

So it's an opinion then rather than a fact, that on June 23rd they gave up the right to be heard on the EU referendum by abstaining. And as such the result is calculated by ignoring abstentions.

This is getting really silly now. People are ignoring reality. What I'm describing is how the votes are actually counted. Not my own personal interpretation.

TrickyTree83

MobileSaver wrote: »

Agreed however I haven't seen anyone claiming that the referendum result proves "the will of the people" or "the majority of the country" want to Remain in the EU.



This is my gut feeling as well. I believe most people expected Remain and the status quo to win and so too many Remainers didn't bother to vote thinking their vote wouldn't make a difference (much to their horror once the result was in!) Leavers on the other hand wanted a change and so by definition were more passionate and made a bigger effort to vote.

My view is that the Brexiteers still can't believe they won, realise it was by a very slim margin and know that if the same question was asked today the result would be very different. That is why they are terrified at the prospect and are trying to convince everyone including themselves that somehow the "majority of the country" voted to Leave.

No one is trying to convince anyone except you.

I've adopted attempting to describe the reality of what happened on June 23rd, you have not. It is you who is arguing from a basis of opinion rather than fact.

Your gut feeling counts for nothing.

Facts don't care about your feelings. It's about time people got to grips with that.

You're trying to argue against UK law, against history, against widely accepted facts that on June 23rd the majority voted to leave. Again, abstentions don't count towards anything. They don't count towards leave or remain, they are not counted at all.