If we vote for Brexit what happens

Masomnia

jimjames wrote: »

If you start to allow the government to bypass parliament if they decide it's in their interest then we are down a slippery slope to dictatorship.

Sure but the government can do lots of things without consulting parliament, sign treaties, go to war etc.

Not particularly bothered by the decision, and I think it is reasonable. Even if the government appeals and loses they'll get a motion past the Commons to trigger A50.

Yamumuk

Frankly any over riding decision from Brexit in our democracy is a good thing cause it is absolute and total madness to have voted out in the first place. Stop it at all costs.

TrickyTree83

Herzlos wrote: »

But there are 4 groups:

- Leave
- Remain
- Abstain
- Not asked

And it's up to Parliament to consider the best interests of all 4 groups, not just the vocal first 2.

They'll also be able to act on a lot more information than the electorate had 5 months ago; discussions with industry, more details on plans, etc.

Not asked, not eligible to vote you mean. That's not an outcome is it.

CLAPTON

jimjames wrote: »

The problem is that no one actually thought about what the process would be.


If you start to allow the government to bypass parliament if they decide it's in their interest then we are down a slippery slope to dictatorship.

As the only way of leaving the EU is via Article 50, then I would see the article 50 to be an inevitable consequence of a vote to leave the EU.
I would therefore see no need to ask parliament.
The issue of what type of brexit is another matter and there are credible reasons for parliament voting.

ruggedtoast

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

I'm sure ruggedtoast is finding various comments pages hilarious (the DM is of course a comedy site). The point is that a huge swathe of the country felt betrayed enough by the elite to vote for this, and could well be shafted again. Do you think those people are just going to shrug, say mustn't grumble and erect an EU flag in their front garden?

I don't want to live in a county in which UKIP makes huge progress off the back of the complete failure of the mainstream parties to address the very real concerns about the EU, specifically uncontrolled and uncontrollable immigration.

Fine, then run an honest Leave campaign based around immigration, stating the truth. That we can't be part of the single market and reject free movement from the European Union, meaning that trade will be hit, companies will relocate and we will be poorer.

Brexiteers can't have it all ways. You can isolate yourself as a country and be isolated, or be part of the global community as it exists in the geographical location in which you are and have access to it.

Europe doesn't want European countries who reject Europe to have access to free trade without free movement. Its pointless banging on about Canada and Botswana because they aren't in our position.

If a majority of people vote to be poorer because it stops Pavel the Plumber, Bruno the Banker and Enrico the Highly Skilled Engineering PhD "getting in" then I will accept it. Not with good grace, but I will accept it.

I am not going to accept a vote based on fantasy where people actually think they can close the borders and reap £350 million pounds a week.

mrginge

wotsthat wrote: »

Yes, it seems quite unlikely that the Tories would lose an election. If it's forced upon them by losing a parliamentary vote on A50 they'll have to go with it.

To do it voluntarily as a bet to ensure an A50 parliamentary vote can be won is pretty high risk. David Cameron can testify that political maneuvering requiring the input of the electorate is fraught with danger.

Does anyone think the days of the Tories hitting the self destruct button over Europe are definitely behind them? Really?

And Labour can't make any sort of comeback? Maybe campaigning for a softer brexit. Promises of nothing much changing but definitely less immigration.

I seriously doubt there'll be a GE of the back of this. Long way to go yet before the govt feels it has no choice. TBH even the threat of one would probably make a few on both sides of the house think twice.

Problem with all this pre-50 debate is that most of it will be a waste of time anyway. The EU aren't involved so coming up with some soft-brexit strategy that gets through parliament is all very well right up to the point that the the EU say it's a no-goer.

I think it's a straight choice between forcing a vote asap or playing a *very* long game and lining up all the trade strategies and details while the EU and businesses get more and more frustrated.
People tend to forget that while we're all arguing the toss, EU decision making is crippled too. Pressure will be building more and more.

Will all depend on the on-side numbers in the Tory party I guess...

beecher2

jimjames wrote: »

The problem is that no one actually thought about what the process would be.


If you start to allow the government to bypass parliament if they decide it's in their interest then we are down a slippery slope to dictatorship.

I hear what you're saying, but what's the point in a referendum if the result is bypassed? I see that as a slippery slope. Could the Scottish government just vote for Scotland to become independent, and it would happen?

Conrad

Yamumuk wrote: »

Just watch out for letting Fascism creep in cause you Brexiters are not very good at seeing things for what they really are.

Once more the arrogance of the sanctimonious liberal class for all to see, they that see's thier role as handing down wisdom tickets to the grateful masses so that they might awaken from false conciseness, lol, no wonder the people of Europe are turning away from arrogant liberal snobbery

Herzlos

beecher2 wrote: »

Surely there would be uproar if Parliament decided not to trigger Article 50? I voted Remain, would love to find a way for Scotland to do so but the majority of people in England and Wales voted Leave. Surely that can't be ignored?

There will be uproar either way.

If A50 is triggered, the 48% will be upset.
If A50 isn't triggered, the 52% will be upset.
If A50 is triggered, and it's a disaster, then all 100% will be upset.

CLAPTON

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Fine, then run an honest Leave campaign based around immigration, stating the truth. That we can't be part of the single market and reject free movement from the European Union, meaning that trade will be hit, companies will relocate and we will be poorer.

Brexiteers can't have it all ways. You can isolate yourself as a country and be isolated, or be part of the global community as it exists in the geographical location in which you are and have access to it.

Europe doesn't want European countries who reject Europe to have access to free trade without free movement. Its pointless banging on about Canada and Botswana because they aren't in our position.

If a majority of people vote to be poorer because it stops Pavel the Plumber, Bruno the Banker and Enrico the Highly Skilled Engineering PhD "getting in" then I will accept it. Not with good grace, but I will accept it.

I am not going to accept a vote based on fantasy where people actually think they can close the borders and reap £350 million pounds a week.

There is no credible democratic principle which says that the loser can reject the result, if in their opinion, the other side told lies.

Of course Trump has been trumpeting this view point.