If we vote for Brexit what happens

Herzlos

CLAPTON wrote: »

that seem a sort of result : the under class will have a bit less to spend on expensive foreign lager

So they'll start buying heroin instead?

Herzlos

Conrad wrote: »

There's no excuse for a poor diet. There are plenty of poor people making intelligent dietary decisions, indeed, in the quite recent past food was much more scare and people much poorer but many didn't shirk from preparing a big old stew and storing some for further meals.

I certainly agree that diets across the board can be improved, but you fail to comprehend that some people do have limited control over that sort of thing.

You try and make a big old stew without a hob or pot, I dare you :j.
You're generally assuming that people have everything they need and choose not to; some of these people you're looking down on may not have access to a working kitchen (homeless/hostel)

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

that seem a sort of result : the under class will have a bit less to spend on expensive foreign lager

People who make poor life choices will continue to do so post Brexit.

Thrugelmir

mayonnaise wrote: »

Yes, I suppose he could sell Meantime Ale, Sussex sparkling wines, Cornwall Tea and Korev lager instead. With a complimentary bowl of Welsh Black Butter of course. :rotfl:

Ramsbury Brewery is my local. Buy direct in house and get good discounts.

TrickyTree83

Herzlos wrote: »

I certainly agree that diets across the board can be improved, but you fail to comprehend that some people do have limited control over that sort of thing.

You try and make a big old stew without a hob or pot, I dare you :j.
You're generally assuming that people have everything they need and choose not to; some of these people you're looking down on may not have access to a working kitchen (homeless/hostel)

I honestly think you would struggle to find a sufficiently large sample of cases where people do not have a heat source or a surface to prepare food on.

If they're in private rented or social rented housing it's a requirement by law. If they're paying a mortgage you cannot get a mortgage on the property unless things like kitchens and bathrooms are serviceable.

Homelessness and hostel/temporary accommodation aren't known for leading to obesity. Happy to be corrected on that though.

Edit: If I am correct in my assumptions above, we're not doing anyone any favours by being apologists on their behalf.

Herzlos

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I honestly think you would struggle to find a sufficiently large sample of cases where people do not have a heat source or a surface to prepare food on.

If they're in private rented or social rented housing it's a requirement by law. If they're paying a mortgage you cannot get a mortgage on the property unless things like kitchens and bathrooms are serviceable.

Homelessness and hostel/temporary accommodation aren't known for leading to obesity. Happy to be corrected on that though.

Edit: If I am correct in my assumptions above, we're not doing anyone any favours by being apologists on their behalf.

By law they need to have some facilities; I've seen people who are given those mini worktop single hob things, and a smallish pot. You're also assuming that whatever they have isn't broken, and they've currently got electricity.
There's also apparently a surprising number of private rentals that don't provide legally required facilities.

I'm not saying everyone buying junk food is doing so because they don't have a hob, I'm just saying that making food more expensive won't cause people to get a better diet, because in some cases they don't have any actual choice.

I didn't mention obesity, just that you might find that a lot of homeless people will go and buy something hot from a takeaway if they have the cash.

Why else do you think food bank usage has gone through the roof?

CLAPTON

Herzlos wrote: »

Why else do you think food bank usage has gone through the roof?

there is always a demand for free things

Thrugelmir

Herzlos wrote: »

Why else do you think food bank usage has gone through the roof?

In some instances because people have totally mismanaged their personal finances. If MacDonalds (for example) wasn't on the High Street far fewer people would be obese. Making life easy. Doesn't address all the issues that society faces.

TrickyTree83

Herzlos wrote: »

By law they need to have some facilities; I've seen people who are given those mini worktop single hob things, and a smallish pot. You're also assuming that whatever they have isn't broken, and they've currently got electricity.
There's also apparently a surprising number of private rentals that don't provide legally required facilities.

I'm not saying everyone buying junk food is doing so because they don't have a hob, I'm just saying that making food more expensive won't cause people to get a better diet, because in some cases they don't have any actual choice.

I didn't mention obesity, just that you might find that a lot of homeless people will go and buy something hot from a takeaway if they have the cash.

Why else do you think food bank usage has gone through the roof?

The cynic in me wants to say I suspect food banks are being used because they exist. That way I can get some food and I can also own an iPhone5 (obviously not the latest version, that would be ridiculous).

But pragmatically I would say that it's probably a combination of those who use them for the above reason and those who genuinely need them. I would not assume that a rise in food bank usage is directly linked to the destitution of the people using them. There are more people than we would like to admit who know how to game the UK's systems.

From those at the top who avoid tax, to those at the bottom who also avoid tax, or play the system to get the most out of it.

That's why I would 100% back a voucher system, or perhaps some form of government issue debit card that could only be used for particular purchases. So your child benefit goes on your kids and the money given for food and electricity goes on that, there's none of this flat screen TV, foreign holiday, smartphone, tablet, nike, cigarettes, booze, McDonalds, etc... expenditure when you're supposed to be on the "bread line".

Going back to what I've seen in deepest darkest Ukraine.

A single hob is enough to cook a meal for a family of four, I've seen it done. You just need the will and determination to do it, and it seems the women in particular from that part of the world have that in spades. Not only are they in the garden digging up turnips and planting cabbage, they're harvesting it, preparing it, cooking it on one hob and serving it to the entire family whilst also making sure they all have enough food for 3 square meals a day, each day of the week.

I cannot reconcile what I've witnessed with the "plight" of the UK poor. They're unwilling to help themselves because they know other people will pity them and do it for them. Whilst I'd identify as a free market libertarian I recognise the realistic need for social healthcare, social safety nets, etc... but the abuse of these systems needs to be stopped, unfortunately it appears to be a vote winner. But that should stop, in the same way that the creative tax avoidance systems should be stopped.

Rinoa

The EU are currently negotiating with Switzerland over EU immigration controls following a Swiss referendum.

EU leaders are trying to do a deal but at the same time trying to make out Brexit is somehow different, and if they give Switzerland concessions it won't mean the UK will be offered the same deal.

Very entertaining watching Merkel & Co squirm. :rotfl:

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201611021047007111-switzerland-eu-immigration-brexit/