If we vote for Brexit what happens

CLAPTON

Ballard wrote: »

What's to stop you contacting your MEP in the same way that you can contact your MP? These elected officials are there to act for us and so you're entitled to put your view to them.

I live in a very safe Tory seat and I'm not a Conservative voter so my views are effectively ignored but that doesn't alter the fact that I live in a democracy.

I don't think the issue is black or white

Clearly the perception of what is 'democratic' varies from person to person and is (in my opinion) largely gut feel rather than some rationally thought out process.
Many see the FPTP system as undemocratic and prefer some for of proportional representation: other disagree; basically a matter of feelings rather than some form of rational process.

If you feel the current system seem 'right ' for you then that is fine: personally I feel the distance between an EU decision making and me is vast.
So e.g. there was a fuss about the VAT on tampons / sanitory products: it seems to me that a sufficient fuss in the UK media could have changed that legislation within a couple of months IF it had been in the authority of the UK parliament. As it is the Eu are I believe considering it but who knows when or if we are allowed to change our VAT rates.
Personally I would wish to see other changes to VAT (e.g. reduction VAT on thermal insulation products ) but there is no realistic chance of influencing the EU elite on such things.

The problems arise in my view, when a sufficient number of people think things are wrong but see no effective way of changing them.

Thrugelmir

Ballard wrote: »

It's all very well espousing 'Buy British' but you have to let realism into the equation.

I do agree with you. Simply making the point that any readjustment of buying habits makes a difference. As a single £ spent at home. Reduces the trade imbalance by £2. Also keeps the whole £ inside the Uk economy. Which in turn keeps a business going. Keeps people in work. Generates tax revenue for the Treasury.

If I was Nissan I would be considering the potential selling potential of the new models. Given the price differential over German imports (for example) at the current time. There's huge opportunity in certain sectors to improve the UK economy.

wotsthat

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

If British manufacturers/producers see that the UK market has become one in which they're now able to compete they have the opportunity to expand into the budget product market rather than the premium product market. You're comparing apples and pears and making an argument that they're not the same, I think that goes without saying.

Let's forget tea because quite clearly British manufacturers aren't going to be rushing to grow tea, bananas and olives any time soon.

The more sensible approach in your example would be for people to pay more for their food and for manufacturers to expand into product at the premium end of the market.

There's little value to be added in making Smart Price baked beans.

Thrugelmir

lisyloo wrote: »

Very good, I didn't know that.
However 50g of loose leaf tea is £9.15 - very expensive.
How many people on low or even middle income families do you think can afford to prioritise principle over price.

Rarely see an empty MacDonalds, Costa Coffee , Gourmet Burger, Starbucks etc. People won't spend the money in the supermarket but have no hesitation on the high street. Yet the product is infintely better.

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

Being made in the UK means some costs aren't affected by devaluation but all products will have a different profile. For Heinz baked beans the haricot beans will be imported and so will the tomato puree (USA and Italy I think). Then there's the steel of the can etc.

Don't forget the UK isn't even self sufficient in potatoes.

There's going to be a huge readjustment of people's shopping habits and it'll be fascinating to watch.

I can't see a 'huge' adjustment: people will simply shop at lidls rather waitrose, substitute cheaper brands or products, buy less and keep things longer.
UK industry and businesses will respond by competing in different ways: where its now possible to trade profitably where previously it was not possible.

Ballard

From the posts that I've read on here most from the leave side don't, in my opinion, offer a great deal of logic. It has largely been along the lines of 'faceless bureaurocrats' and 'bendy bananas'. Your post, CLAPTON, bucks the trend and puts a reasoned argument.

I have to say that to an extent I agree with you on this. I'm on record as saying that the EU isn't perfect. We disagree because I feel that despite these issues I still feel that we would have been better off staying in. I desperately hope to be proved wrong over the coming years.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Hungary will sue the European Commission and resist mandatory migrant resettlement quotas if Brussels does not take them off the agenda, Prime Minister Viktor Orb!n said on Friday (28 October).

http://www.euractiv.com/section/central-europe/news/orban-threatens-to-sue-eu-over-mandatory-migrant-quotas/

Also this week, Poland and the Ukraine state displeasure at a EU agreement with Russia using German gas pipelines - thus increasing EU reliance upon Russia for gas.

It also comes just days after Competition Commissioner Margrethe Vestager met Gazprom officials to discuss a possible settlement of the separate antitrust case in which Gazprom is accused of using its market power to bully Central and Eastern European gas customers.

http://www.politico.eu/article/eu-grants-russian-gas-giant-go-ahead-to-expand-in-europe-politics-aside-gazprom-energy-vestager/

Rebellion is indeed spreading.

TrickyTree83

Ballard wrote: »

From the posts that I've read on here most from the leave side don't, in my opinion, offer a great deal of logic. It has largely been along the lines of 'faceless bureaurocrats' and 'bendy bananas'. Your post, CLAPTON, bucks the trend and puts a reasoned argument.

I have to say that to an extent I agree with you on this. I'm on record as saying that the EU isn't perfect. We disagree because I feel that despite these issues I still feel that we would have been better off staying in. I desperately hope to be proved wrong over the coming years.

I intensely dislike the political institutions of the EU.

I like the rest of it, the EEA/EFTA set up where you can be part of a group if you wish or you can act alone if that's more in your interests to me appears to be the way the EU should be. Instead it's been taken down the wrong path and now it's not just the UK who are trying to tell them that they've gone down the wrong path, they still don't appear to be listening to the people they say they represent.

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

I can't see a 'huge' adjustment: people will simply shop at lidls rather the waitrose, subsstiute cheaper brands or products, buy less and keep things longer.
UK industry and businesses will respond by competing in different ways: where its now possible to trade profitably where previously it was not possible.

You don't think they'll be buying less imported products and more British made goods? That's meant to be one of the 'benefits' of a weak currency isn't it. A devaluation doesn't in itself balance trade - it's people's behaviours and adjustments that do it.

Sterling hasn't just fallen by an odd % or two. It spent the whole of 2016 weakening and fell off a cliff in June. It's now at record lows. IMO people are underestimating just how profound the effects will be (positive and negative).

Thrugelmir

wotsthat wrote: »

Sterling hasn't just fallen by an odd % or two. It spent the whole of 2016 weakening and fell off a cliff in June. It's now at record lows. IMO people are underestimating just how profound the effects will be (positive and negative).

Bound to be some sizeable negative impacts feeding through. If producers absorb a significant part of the increase. Then will show how much margin they actually make. Apple and Microsoft have shown that they prefer profit over sales revenue though.