If we vote for Brexit what happens

TrickyTree83

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

All nation states choose to pool or share elements of sovereignty with every treaty or trade agreement they sign.

The question of sovereignty rests ultimately with whether or not that state has the power to withdraw from those treaties or agreements should it so choose.

The decision to Brexit is by definition proof that ultimate sovereignty rests with the UK even as a member of the EU.

As has frequently been pointed out - the EU forced us to do nothing as we could leave the EU at any time.

You cannot simply ignore the very meaning of the word sovereignty because it's inconvenient.

It boils down to this:

Inside the EU = not sovereign

Why? = Because "noun. A state with a defined territory that administers its own government and is not subject to or dependent on another power" Therefore every EU member state is subject to another power for some of it's legislation.

Outside the EU = sovereign

TrickyTree83

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

When the facts change I change my mind.

What do you do?



All I do is hold up the mirror....

What people see in it is entirely up to them.

You're talking crap.

I've nothing against you personally, I just want to make that quite clear, I don't know you from Adam.

But the single market is not all important to Scotland. The UK market is.

Countries inside the EU are not sovereign, by the very definition of the word.

You cannot possibly know that the future is bleak for the UK outside of the EU because the negotiations have not even started yet let alone finished. We may well end up with EEA/EFTA/another deal which gives us single market access/membership. But even outside of the single market you cannot possibly know that it will be catastrophic for the UK because (and this is really important) - no one does.

It would appear you've changed your mind prematurely, joined in with the deluded independence march toward austerity because you're aghast that the majority of the UK want to leave the EU. You don't want to be seen to backtrack and now you're trying to defend the indefensible.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Really Hamish?
Are you suggesting that we really don't need to worry about Article 50, negotiations etc; and threats from various EU politicos that they will "make life difficult" for the UK then?

You are conflating the issue of whether a course of action is wise with whether or not it's legally possible.

The UK can leave the EU if it so chooses.

Therefore the UK retains ultimate sovereignty and always has done.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

You cannot simply ignore the very meaning of the word sovereignty because it's inconvenient.

And you cannot simply ignore the fact that every trade deal or treaty involves the pooling or sharing of some elements of sovereignty.

The question of ultimate sovereignty rests with whether or not a state can withdraw from those treaties or trade agreements.

The UK clearly can - if it chooses to - therefore the UK retains ultimate sovereignty and always has done.

TrickyTree83

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

You are conflating the issue of whether a course of action is wise with whether or not it's legally possible.

The UK can leave the EU if it so chooses.

Therefore the UK retains ultimate sovereignty and always has done.

Really... why aren't you getting the distinction between in the EU and subject to another power and outside the EU and not subject to another power?

It is impossible to retain EU membership and not be subject to their power. Impossible. Impossible. Impossible.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

It is impossible to retain EU membership and not be subject to their power. Impossible. Impossible. Impossible.

I find it delightful that the people currently proving you wrong are called the 'Walloons'.

daveyjp

The EU is not "another power", 'they' do not have power over 'us'.

Yamumuk

Brexit talks to be in French request for anyone still in denial that we are the laughing stock of Europe.
You need to ask how can anyone globally take use seriously after your deicisons ?

It is clear the best deal available is being in the E.U. anyone who disagrees is doing this country a great disservice.

Right your wrong before it is too late.

TrickyTree83

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

I find it delightful that the people currently proving you wrong are called the 'Walloons'.

The EU is not "another power", 'they' do not have power over 'us'.

And who is telling Hungary they can't control the borders they way they'd like?

The Clangers?

Bob Geldof?

Sounds like power over Hungarian border control and immigration policy to me.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

And who is telling Hungary they can't control the borders they way they'd like?

The Clangers?

Bob Geldof?

Sounds like power over Hungarian border control and immigration policy to me.

And remind me again how many people Hungary have agreed to accept?