If we vote for Brexit what happens

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

cogito wrote: »

It makes a complete mockery of the EU itself which once upon a time called itself the Common Market. It's like Bradford stopping the UK from completing a trade agreement with Australia.

Wow - the cognitive dissonance being displayed by some of you in this thread is absolutely remarkable.

You've collectively gone from a pre-Brexit vote position of....

- The EU is undemocratic and authoritarian

- France and Germany dominate everyone else

and

- Politicians can never be trusted to use a veto in their national interests

All the way to the current position which now seems to have changed 180 degrees to....

- Democracy is bad

- The EU offers too much control to individual countries

and

- Vetoes are used too often

Honestly - you couldn't make it up!!! :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

CLAPTON

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Wow - the cognitive dissonance being displayed by some of you in this thread is absolutely remarkable.

You've collectively gone from a pre-Brexit vote position of....

- The EU is undemocratic and authoritarian

- France and Germany dominate everyone else

and

- Politicians can never be trusted to use a veto in their national interests

All the way to the current position which now seems to have changed 180 degrees to....

- Democracy is bad

- The EU offers too much control to individual countries

and

- Vetoes are used too often

Honestly - you couldn't make it up!!! :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

what do you consider the 'correct ' system should be ? You are allowed to make it up.

TrickyTree83

It's all gone quiet over there.

Can't wait to see the answer to how sovereign nations can be told to comply or face expulsion or ruin.

Perhaps it's time to get real and talk about this all pragmatically instead of trying to points score.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

CLAPTON wrote: »

what do you consider the 'correct ' system should be ? You are allowed to make it up.

And why not - Hamish usually does.

Never mind that "the EU" aren't done with trying to salvage CETA.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/ceta-eu-canada-trade-deal-wallonia-emergency-talks-2016-10

wotsthat

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

It's not an anti-immigration post, so don't try to paint it as such.

Hungary has a clear policy as a supposed 'sovereign' nation of not allowing migrants to flood across its border unchecked into central, western and northern Europe. So it erected a barrier and patrols the border.

It was recently told by Luxembourg, this is unacceptable and that continued action such as this may result in Hungary being expelled from the EU.

The refugee/migrant quota system was voted for in the EU by qualified majority, the Hungarians held a referendum and rejected it.

How can Hungary be considered sovereign when it is told it must comply with rules the Hungarian demos have rejected?

Edit: How can Greece be considered sovereign when it is told it must comply with ECB (German) diktats which were rejected by the Greek demos?

A group of sovereign nations have agreed to pool sovereignty in certain areas. Hungary/ Greece can tell the EU to whistle at anytime.

When you join a club you agree to follow the rules. If you later decide you don't want to follow the rules then you need to try and change the rules. If you can't, and you feel strongly enough about it, you leave.

i.e. like the UK.

wotsthat

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Can't wait to see the answer to how sovereign nations can be told to comply or face expulsion or ruin.

I assume you don't think the UK will face ruin by leaving the EU?

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Perhaps it's time to get real and talk about this all pragmatically instead of trying to points score.

We need to see a plan so we have something to discuss.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Ahem.
From today:

European Parliament head Martin Schulz and Canadian Trade Minister Chrystia Freeland have held emergency talks with Wallonian parliament leader Paul Magnette, in an attempt to salvage the deal.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/ceta-eu-canada-trade-deal-wallonia-emergency-talks-2016-10

I wonder what those in power within the EU will do to "persuade" or maybe entice Wallonia?

Marktheshark

I do not know why people are still getting uptight about this.
It will never happen, we will remain in the single market, we will remain free movement of people and we will still be bankrolling the EU and its common purpose idiots in charge.

Just watch and see what happens.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

maybe entice Wallonia?

Well that's sort of the point of democracy and politics...

The UK has repeatedly over the years negotiated changes to EU agreements to protect UK interests or get better terms - backed up by the threat of a veto.

TrickyTree83

wotsthat wrote: »

A group of sovereign nations have agreed to pool sovereignty in certain areas. Hungary/ Greece can tell the EU to whistle at anytime.

When you join a club you agree to follow the rules. If you later decide you don't want to follow the rules then you need to try and change the rules. If you can't, and you feel strongly enough about it, you leave.

i.e. like the UK.

So sovereignty is conditional upon following the rules made by qualified majority voting including 27 other nations?

Therefore you're not sovereign whilst you're a member of the club, you are beholden to the majority, correct? You cannot simply remain a member and choose to do as you please can you?

Lets not try to twist it. Whilst you're a member of the EU, you cannot be sovereign without leaving the EU, therefore, you are not sovereign within it.