If we vote for Brexit what happens

mayonnaise

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Interesting article.



http://thedailycoin.org/2016/10/18/otmar-issing-founder-and-creator-of-the-euro-warns-euro-will-collapse/

The explosive interview has been covered extensively in the more “right wing” euro “skeptic” media in the UK in papers such as The Telegraph and The Mail which means that most people in the EU will not even be aware of Otmar Issing’s very real and reasonable concerns and the growing risks posed to the currency they use in their lives every day and their very way of life.

Yep...those poor Continental Europeans don't have quality media outlets like the Daily Mail and The Telegraph to inform them about impending doom concerning all things EU. :rotfl:

cells

setmefree2 wrote: »

https://www.ft.com/content/6a83c8bc-9488-11e6-a80e-bcd69f323a8b

sounds correct but if the UK does reduce import tarriffs on foods we will see our own local producers go out of business. it will lead to lower consumer prices but likely the loss of much of the UK agriculture sector

For instance if we had no tariffs on imports of white sugar and sugar cane we might see almost all the 4,000 sugar beet farmers and the 6 factories that refine that beet to sugar go bankrupt

We would go from producing some 60% of sugar within the UK towards maybe 0%.


it is probably in the interest of the uk to do this but short term its going to be more pain than gain

CLAPTON

cells wrote: »

sounds correct but if the UK does reduce import tarriffs on foods we will see our own local producers go out of business. it will lead to lower consumer prices but likely the loss of much of the UK agriculture sector

For instance if we had no tariffs on imports of white sugar and sugar cane we might see almost all the 4,000 sugar beet farmers and the 6 factories that refine that beet to sugar go bankrupt

We would go from producing some 60% of sugar within the UK towards maybe 0%.


it is probably in the interest of the uk to do this but short term its going to be more pain than gain

ridiculous

but a very eloquent argument for tariffs on all goods : once we leave the EU we will be able to do that even if it is absurd.

setmefree2

cells wrote: »

sounds correct but if the UK does reduce import tarriffs on foods we will see our own local producers go out of business. it will lead to lower consumer prices but likely the loss of much of the UK agriculture sector

For instance if we had no tariffs on imports of white sugar and sugar cane we might see almost all the 4,000 sugar beet farmers and the 6 factories that refine that beet to sugar go bankrupt

We would go from producing some 60% of sugar within the UK towards maybe 0%.


it is probably in the interest of the uk to do this but short term its going to be more pain than gain

Tariffs can still be tailored to our own producers. This is a link to the EU tariffs.

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/measures.jsp?Lang=en&SimDate=20161019&Area=US&Taric=2103&LangDescr=en

Imagine you are USA, imagine you want to import sauce (code 2103) tomato sauce in particular - tariff = 10.2%.

We could have high tariffs for our own producers products say tomatos but low for things we import like sweetcorn =0%. Coconut = 0%

Conrad

Yamumuk wrote: »

What more do we actually require to be happy and is it directly the E.U.'s fault that this "missing" aspect that we are somehow owed ?

I enjoyed your post.


Ok lets start with your key theme, peace.

I do not for a moment feel peace is compromised, we remain core NATO members.


Western European peoples are far too well informed and smart to let some Hitler figure (Le Penn is no Hitler) come to power, the western European world just isn't that way now.


EU or no EU, if Russia has designs on former communist states, it will take them if it so pleases.


If anything bodies like the EU and UN hamper bold action anyway.


So peace for me is not compromised, and that applies if other nations decide to leave.




So to the next question - what more do I require to be happy?




+ I detest lemon hierarchies - they are everywhere in Britain. The EU makes this worse, as the liberal establishment follows EU 'law' to the letter which advantages rule benders and spongers in all manner of way


+ The French or Dutch are far more sceptical by nature and so don't hand out benefits and advantage to conniving arrivals - and they interpret EU law far more practically and on their own terms

EU laws and dic tats grants the British liberal establishment a green card to advantage cheats and spongers - they just refer to Brussels rules and implement and copper plate them


THIS MATTERS BECAUSE IT SLOWLY ERODES SOCIETY. In Dartford it was said on the news today there is a 50 yr council house waiting list - but I can 100% guarantee new arrivals will find themselves to the front of the queue - its just the way liberal Britain works - asymmetric advantage for those that don't play by the rules, that set out to take advantage of fair minded British sense of fair play. This all causes slowly seething anger to build. Listen to LBC day and night for a month - you'll get the idea- real people with real experiences, not some pious liberal disconnected from the coal face with her mind full of academia.


Its no good you saying the British must toughen the rules - the liberal establishment will always find a way to copper bottom Brussels rules to suit the liberal agenda.


So I want the buck FULLY to rest in Parliament - no more buck passing to Brussels. This is my only chance of getting the huge Liberal establishment apparatus to be slowly bought into check. My ONLY chance.




Population rise > Lets not get into a big rant here, but in short I hate the way population is spiralling and above all the sense the little towns and villages near me are expanding rapidly, the loss of 'magic', a relentless path to a more depressing place with much detrimental harm on nature.




PADDLE OUR OWN CANOE - the 'little Englander' trying to put the clock back, right?

Wrong - the big global Britisher that wants Britain talking for herself on the world stage at all the global bodies, not diluted by the mess of the squabbling disparate EU.


We already are the worlds no1 soft power, lets take advantage of it, we do not benefit from this mythical '600 million people' nonsense, we can give far clearer leadership.


Autonomy - us talking for ourselves making tailored, quick and efficient trade deals whereas the squabbling 27 are hopeless on this front. Of our top none EU 10 trading partners we only enjoy a trade deal with 2.


Nimble footed - in this fast moving tech world, responsiveness and speed are going to be key, not lumbering great coalitions


Soon we in the UK will be making all sorts of things by way of 3-d printing and other intrusive technologies - this makes great lumbering talking shops a waste of space. Probably means tariffs are on the way out to.


Prosperity - I think the EU model that places emphasis on free movement and freezing out new business entrants (EU protectionism mainly for big business and lobbyists - the more rules there are, the more the barriers to entry for start ups), ensures more and more wealth goes to those chomping cigars.


These people in places like Goldman Sachs are all hyped up on trying to dream up new ways of themselves becoming a middle man, and the EU enables this by providing unlimited cheap labour. For example once the black cabby and a passenger did a transaction with one another, but now a select handful of Bankers and shareholders have become an unnecessary middle man in the form of UBER, crushing incomes, transforming lives for the worse - more and more people falling victim to DISRUPTIVE CAPITALISM AIDED BY CHEAP LABOUR - THIS IS THE CRITICAL POINT


Understand these city boys wake up wondering how they can get a piece of everyday customer to trader interactions, even curry shops now find themselves handing money to these online ordering hubs - a few rich kids subverting income - picking peoples pockets, enabled by an army of cheap EU workers.




Independence gives us the catalyst to fundamentally build a better more GENUINELY FAIR society (not the warped liberal fairness that over and again is a charter for cheats which the EU unwittingly underpins as the liberal British class say they are 'only following EU principles and law'). I want all decisions made in Westminster so I know who to blame*


LAST POINT>> CHANGE BREEDS INNOVATION - for me a very exciting time




*yes I know other global body rules will still apply - I can live with that though

cogito

cells wrote: »

sounds correct but if the UK does reduce import tarriffs on foods we will see our own local producers go out of business. it will lead to lower consumer prices but likely the loss of much of the UK agriculture sector

For instance if we had no tariffs on imports of white sugar and sugar cane we might see almost all the 4,000 sugar beet farmers and the 6 factories that refine that beet to sugar go bankrupt

We would go from producing some 60% of sugar within the UK towards maybe 0%.


it is probably in the interest of the uk to do this but short term its going to be more pain than gain

You might want to read this article which explains how the CAP has almost destroyed our sugar industry.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9904266/The-EUs-sugar-ruling-thats-left-a-bitter-taste-at-Tate-and-Lyle.html

Conrad

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Is the above letter in the FT talking about this kind of Brexit ? Because if so, there's a backlash.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-eu-referendum-article-50-theresa-may-brexiteers-trade-deals-freedom-movement-choices-take-a7367896.html

#


Once again, we are perfectly capable of making our own rules on tariffs and trade. Once again the remainers throw up their hands in despair and want to run away from change and challenge

Herzlos

Conrad wrote: »

Western European peoples are far too well informed and smart to let some Hitler figure (Le Penn is no Hitler) come to power, the western European world just isn't that way now.

Except the Hitler figures almost always started reasonably and then got worse gradually. With suggestions like reporting the hiring of foreigners.

If anything bodies like the EU and UN hamper bold action anyway.

Only if we're doing something the rest of Europe disagrees with.

The French or Dutch are far more sceptical by nature and so don't hand out benefits and advantage to conniving arrivals - and they interpret EU law far more practically and on their own terms

So anyone looking for benefits is conniving, rather than needy?

EU laws and dic tats grants the British liberal establishment a green card to advantage cheats and spongers - they just refer to Brussels rules and implement and copper plate them

So your problem isn't with the Eu rules, but the poor way in which we implement them?

THIS MATTERS BECAUSE IT SLOWLY ERODES SOCIETY. In Dartford it was said on the news today there is a 50 yr council house waiting list - but I can 100% guarantee new arrivals will find themselves to the front of the queue - its just the way liberal Britain works - asymmetric advantage for those that don't play by the rules, that set out to take advantage of fair minded British sense of fair play. This all causes slowly seething anger to build. Listen to LBC day and night for a month - you'll get the idea- real people with real experiences, not some pious liberal disconnected from the coal face with her mind full of academia.

Do you have a reference for the foreigner priority?
Why doesn't the government just encourage the growth of social housing stock rather than reducing it?

So I want the buck FULLY to rest in Parliament - no more buck passing to Brussels. This is my only chance of getting the huge Liberal establishment apparatus to be slowly bought into check. My ONLY chance.

So you want to risk destroying our economy, so that the buck notionally stops at Westminster, who'll blame the EU anyway?

Population rise > Lets not get into a big rant here, but in short I hate the way population is spiralling and above all the sense the little towns and villages near me are expanding rapidly, the loss of 'magic', a relentless path to a more depressing place with much detrimental harm on nature.

But the population rise will happen even without EU migrants, who we still need to pay the bills.

Wrong - the big global Britisher that wants Britain talking for herself on the world stage at all the global bodies, not diluted by the mess of the squabbling disparate EU.

Nothing was stopping us.

Soon we in the UK will be making all sorts of things by way of 3-d printing and other intrusive technologies - this makes great lumbering talking shops a waste of space. Probably means tariffs are on the way out to.

No, we won't, because 3-d printing won't do what you think it will.
Even if it did, it'd be doing it on Chinese made machines, using Chinese made plastic filament (which, being oil based, will be dependant on the USD oil price).

Independence gives us the catalyst to fundamentally build a better more GENUINELY FAIR society (not the warped liberal fairness that over and again is a charter for cheats which the EU unwittingly underpins as the liberal British class say they are 'only following EU principles and law'). I want all decisions made in Westminster so I know who to blame*

You're not going to get a fairer government with the Tories, who will still try and blame everyone but themselves.

Everything the UK has done in the last few decades that's been fair has been driven by the EU.

LAST POINT>> CHANGE BREEDS INNOVATION - for me a very exciting time

It also builds uncertainty and resentment.
[/QUOTE]

Thrugelmir

Herzlos wrote: »

You're not going to get a fairer government with the Tories, who will still try and blame everyone but themselves.

That's opinion not fact and misses the point that Brexit wasn't political. It was a rejection by the average Joe Public of the culture being created by the EU political vision. Unlike the EU , Governments are accountable and can be voted out at least every 5 years. Impose rules on people i.e. uncontrolled immigration and you'll get their backs up. That's human nature.

steampowered

THIS MATTERS BECAUSE IT SLOWLY ERODES SOCIETY. In Dartford it was said on the news today there is a 50 yr council house waiting list - but I can 100% guarantee new arrivals will find themselves to the front of the queue

Do you honestly believe that?

On what basis do you think new arrivals get pushed to the top of the queue?

It sounds like a silly urban myth to me. To be honest it kind of undermines the rest of your argument.