If we vote for Brexit what happens

Yamumuk

Firstly I refer to this:

" If you voted Brexit you need to drill down. Is it really the E.U.'s fault you do not have what you perceive you need ? It is critical you do this and conclude now even if you did not give thought before voting out. There is much at stake. "

We all have an individual responsibility rich and poor to understand that which we vote for.

You should have quoted the entire thread, seeing the bigger picture is what the future is about.

Please explain the failings in some detail and how they are resolved by an sole nation outside a trading block.

We have freedom of movement, social security, high standards of living (of course varying as individuals), good health care. What EXACTLY is the problem !!!!!! ?

CLAPTON

Yamumuk wrote: »

I agree this is a bit lofty and worrying and I know deep down all political persuasions understand this to be a fact rather than fiction. Even the deniers, just a way to protect wealth as it stands.

I still completely disagree that Brexit will help this country in any way. It is merely a harking back to the historic bad old days, a falsely perceived sense of superiority over others, highlighted by a world that depends more greatly on each other for resources trade etc. (Peak phosphorus/oil/ eventually fresh water). Capitalism is on the back foot, it seems to be failing and showing cracks, government and the E.U., are in my opinion trying to hold this together. It relies on extraction and movement of resources from the very crust of the planet we live on. A direct correlation. Capitalism seems to rely on constant growth. For everyone on the planet to live like we do in the west we need 3 x planet earth's.

That leaves us with 2 options. The rich manage or we all live a comfortable but more modest lifestyle and come together. I believe in coming together not separating, that is the choice for the future as a species. How this is going to happen I cannot even begin to imagine but it is important food for thought.

The multi pronged threats of rising population, artificial intelligence, economic decay and eventual collapse, loss of scarce resources that sustain life, global warming, (this is so serious it will defnitely be part of the collapse of society globally as we know it)

It will be a slowly progressing demise over 5-10-15-20 years, there will be changes big and small along the way depending on events but it won't be pretty and it will be a long painful process especially for the poor.

The bigger picture is it is probably better to cooperate than not in the longer term future.

With Brexit I find it hard to accept that we are the only country thus far to allow the small end of a wedge to be applied to allow back door fascism. Make no mistake UKIP and those associated know much more clearly what their true politcal core represents than a few smily faces and sound bites/interviews etc would let you understand. They choose words carefully. Brexit is the sign of a country closing down and closing up.

May knows she has to stop UKIP and placate the Brexit voters. I hope she understand the true nature of the threat despite parliament never mentioning the word openly. They simply do not want to understand that it exists and are in a state of denial.

Fascism defined:

"A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism."

Taken to its conclusion we know it is about identifying a false cause, instilling fear and anger in the population and eradicating the people concerned.

Other governments across Europe have similar political stances and more commonly opposition political parties and are gaining momentum. It's real and up to us to ensure a foothold does not take place. We should remember our forefathers and what they fought for and remain tolerant and open. Not shutting the U.K. down.

If fascism does take grip in the not too distant future there will multiple countries following a nationalist agenda, closing up and looking out for themselves as countries possibly alone outside the E.U. Anyone with an ounce of sense can see that greater separation economically, militarily, politically with a nationalistic self serving outlook creates suspicion, tension, political conflict, sanctions and ultimately a greater risk of war.

See it for what it really is, you do not have to look that far of where things are heading.


Every now and then I wonder to myself, I am completely wrong on this matter ? Maybe I am totally wrong about Brexit and again and again I keep remembering what peace means. I do question myself as I am sure do many remainers. We ask if Brexiter knows more than we do about economics ? We even admire/rightly or wrongly your unshaking confidence in the country as an independent state. Conjecture is bascially what we have and remianers I think mainly felt things are pretty damn good right now and that is something worth retaining. What more do we actually require to be happy and is it directly the E.U.'s fault that this "missing" aspect that we are somehow owed ? Myself, I don't know what it is that is being missed, I am fairly happy, normal, getting by/ I drive an old car live in a basic house, have my health and eat as well I need and want. I am, not rich and never will be. If you voted Brexit you need to drill down. Is it really the E.U.'s fault you do not have what you perceive you need ? It is critical you do this and conclude now even if you did not give thought before voting out. There is much at stake. After all this I keep coming back to one point and that is peace is all. Without it we have nothing and sometimes it is worth aceepting annoyances for the greater good, that which is most important to everyone, not just you or me, but everyone here in the U.K. and elsewhere.

It is everything, sometimes you have to sacrifice annoyances to save what is of greatest importance.

There is more to this life than money alone. Without freedom and peace, emotional comfort and stability and health, money means so much less.

I too believe in world peace.

your definition of fascism applied equally to communism

I don't see how your passionate support for discriminating against all countries in the world except white, christian european ones moves us forward.

padington

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The EU appears to be falling on all these counts. With huge resentment bubbling under.

Peace for 70 years is a huge European success story, get a grip of yourself, life in Europe has been much worse, read some history books.

Herzlos

I don't think there's much real resentment towards the EU either; it's almost all misplaced resentment that should be pointed towards local government.

The EU is not responsible for most of the things people blame it for.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

padington wrote: »

Peace for 70 years is a huge European success story, get a grip of yourself, life in Europe has been much worse, read some history books.

Peace for 70 years..............
You have GOT to be having a laugh!
That or seriously naive.

Starting with one of the most-recent, look at Ukraine and the Crimea - and try to suggest that events there were not at least partly caused by the EU's planned expansionism.

How about 2008 and Georgia's war with Russia - because Georgia wanted to become more westernised?
Or how about Bosnia?

Now look, I know you may well try to say "Ah but IN Europe" - well fine.
Ignore the atrocities the EU has either caused or ignored on its borders or nearby.
Many of us can not.

Yamumuk

Worth remembering the same unthinking, uninformed imbecile - Farage - who spooked that weak minded Cameron into a referendum is the same one who said a Cardiac surgeon seated next to him in the European Union Parliament "Had never done a proper days work in their life"

In what regard would such a person regard your average days work ? TO UKIP you are an easily manipulatable brick in the wall of their agenda of separation and hatred.

It was mentioned that there is a bubbling of resentment. One needs to question why and how that perceived resentment is created.

Let's make an effort to keep our memories long and not short.

Yamumuk

Communism is not the current threat. Do two wrongs make a right ? Your point is null and void.

"I don't see how your passionate support for discriminating against all countries in the world except white, christian european ones moves us forward."

Firstly there is more to the E.U. than just this cherry picked reactionary and convenient argument.

There should be passionate support for all human beings, agreed. It goes both ways there are advantages for us as well we can go where we wish in Europe. Lots of second homes owned in Spain etc.

I do not believe being out of the E.U. will automatically produce a rosy picture for people from other countries. Do you know how hard it is for anyone (including a U.K. citizen) to get into Canada and Australia for example. As a UK citizen you need a visa for many destinations in Asia and Africa and I am talking about a holiday !

It is 1 issue relative to a much much larger set of considerations as approximately outlined in my post.

setmefree2

gfplux wrote: »

It seems likely either way that an appeal will go to the Supreme Court to be heard by a full panel of Britain's top judges.

And ultimately the ECoJ - oh the irony.

Yamumuk

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Peace for 70 years..............
You have GOT to be having a laugh!
That or seriously naive.

Starting with one of the most-recent, look at Ukraine and the Crimea - and try to suggest that events there were not at least partly caused by the EU's planned expansionism.

How about 2008 and Georgia's war with Russia - because Georgia wanted to become more westernised?
Or how about Bosnia?

Now look, I know you may well try to say "Ah but IN Europe" - well fine.
Ignore the atrocities the EU has either caused or ignored on its borders or nearby.
Many of us can not.

I suspect paddington's post was relatively speaking, not wanting to put words in his mouth. Of course death caused by wars is saddening and terrible. It is not easy to quantify how much E.U. and military cooperation has reduced war but we are said to be living in a time of the lowest level of war ever, historically speaking. It all has a part to play, that is undeniable.

CLAPTON

Yamumuk wrote: »

It is not easy to quantify how much E.U. and military cooperation has reduced war but we are said to be living in a time of the lowest level of war ever, historically speaking. It all has a part to play, that is undeniable.

it is easily deniable.
globally there have been many wars
currently there are wars

Peace in europe (well northern europe) has largely been the result of the millions of US troops in europe and the cold war.