How to get my brother to move out

Guest101

pinkshoes wrote: »

TALK to him.

1.Tell him his 6 months are up and you would like your house back now, so could he please collect the rest of his stuff in the next week. - Depends on how he pays rent, if monthly, reasonable notice could be deemed as one month (unless agreed otherwise)

2. Then change the locks! - I wouldn't do this until the notice period had expired. (just clarifying as you did say 'then')

3. Inform council where he is now living. - I wouldn't do this for 2 reasons: 1: because the OP wont know for sure, he could go get a room elsewhere. 2: on a practical level it's going to cause animosity.

He is taking the p*ss and using you, and will continue to do so unless you put your foot down!

I agree that the OP should give notice

FBaby

not paying bills at his home, well in some cases bills are included in the rent

Except that in this case, according to OP, they have stopped asking for rent money because from their perspective, he has moved out. I do think that paying nothing at all towards his supposed 'legal' residence, whilst paying towards bills for the residence that is supposed not his would be questioned and refuted.

heuchera

missbiggles1 wrote: »

Not as far as the DWP are concerned they're not!

It's not so much the sleeping arrangements, but the legal side of things, ie. who is he paying rent and council tax to. Take a look at this site

http://www.advicenow.org.uk/articles/if-benefits-office-believe-you-are-living-together

My partner stays the night a lot but we haven’t moved in together…

Just because your partner stays the night with you, even if they stay most nights, it doesn’t mean you are living together. If your partner still has a home somewhere else where he or she pays bills and keeps their things, then s/he clearly doesn’t live with you.

As far as I can see, the brother still keeps his things at the OP's house and is still classed as living there. His name is not on any of the bills or documents at either of the properties, officially.

pollypenny

Sounds like the brother is leaving things at OP's place do that girlfriend can have her cake and eat it.

And it does sound as if poor dad is the one paying her bills, in truth.

misterzim

Hi All,

Thanks for all of your responses. I knew what I needed to do but I guess I needed some impartial views to clarify things. I have told him he needs to move out, take his belongings and stop using our address. Now we will see how it goes.

BigAunty

I agree with the other posters who say that the debt issue and potential benefit fraud issues are not your problems that directly concern you (though its a shame he didn't take advantage of the arrangement to pay back his debts as promised).

The main thing is that you stuck to your side of the agreement and its time for him to move on and take responsibility for himself.

Perhaps it would have been far better if he'd taken proper ownership of his debts, got debt management advice from a debt charity and came to some kind of agreement with his creditors (or possible debt write off through bankruptcy or DRO or similar).

This way, your father wouldn't be taking the risk of his son's financial management and you wouldn't be taken for a ride with your hospitality. He may have learned his lesson better if he went down the formal debt management route and wasn't cushioned from the economic reality of paying full rent and bills.

The Living Together As Man and Wife definition and whether the girlfriend is committing fraud is quite a complex thing which is examined by the DWP on a case by case basis.

There are some grounds where providing financial support can be taken as providing evidence of co-habitation. There is also quite persistent myths that so long as a partner can prove they maintain another address, their partner can maintain their lone parent status, so too if the only stay at their lone parent partner's property x days per week.

A savvy lone parent on benefits will be fully aware that there are automated data matching exercises by the benefit authorities that take place at their address. Systems are swept to see if there are any links to the address by other people, such as driving licence registration, bank statements and so on. Therefore, those intentionally committing benefit fraud will insist their partner has nothing registered at their address.

It may be just the case that their both feel that somehow if he doesn't move in formally, they aren't rushing things (even though to all intents and purposes it sounds like he physically lives there, perhaps they want some kind of informality at the early stage of their relationship).

It will be interesting to know if he does actually stop using his address for all his correspondence or not when he moves out and if he does remain at her address because he doesn't want the expense of a rental property. For example, if she is defrauding the benefits authorities, she will not want him to have anything that ties him to her address, like GP registration, bank statements, driving licence, mobile phone bills etc. So you may find that you keep receiving post for him unless he can direct it to a rented mail box, for example.

misterzim

Nice post BigAunty.


He has his car insurance, mobile phone etc with our address. Nothing is registered at her address.


They are a relatively new relationship and he tells me constantly that she doesn't want to rush in to things i.e moving in - but the way I see it is that they're kidding themselves as he is physically living at that address just not legally. He's my brother and I want to help him but this has gone on too long now. He's even asking friends who own homes if he can pay on a per-night basis at theirs while continuing to sleep at his girlfriends home, all while putting off payments to my Dad - which he has paid off more than has been perceived by some of you, probably didn't make that clear enough.


It's ridiculous and short of letting the authorities know what's going on I don't know what more I can do?

pollyanna24

Of course, he should prioritise paying your dad back and actually find somewhere to live, but at the same time, four months isn't actually that long for someone to be going out with someone, and then moving in with them, especially if they have kids.

I know I certainly wouldn't be letting someone move into my house (but even if I did, it's up to me and I wouldn't be frauding anyone as the only benefit I get is child benefit).

They mightn't be together in a couple of months time, so she would get reassessed as a couple only to have to reinstate her single status again.

It's a toughie, but not yet at the stage of fraud I don't think. But he needs to man up and stop relying on the good nature of his family and his friends now also it would appear if he trying to cadge a night on their sofa!

TBagpuss

misterzim wrote: »

Nice post BigAunty.


He has his car insurance, mobile phone etc with our address. Nothing is registered at her address.


They are a relatively new relationship and he tells me constantly that she doesn't want to rush in to things i.e moving in - but the way I see it is that they're kidding themselves as he is physically living at that address just not legally. He's my brother and I want to help him but this has gone on too long now. He's even asking friends who own homes if he can pay on a per-night basis at theirs while continuing to sleep at his girlfriends home, all while putting off payments to my Dad - which he has paid off more than has been perceived by some of you, probably didn't make that clear enough.


It's ridiculous and short of letting the authorities know what's going on I don't know what more I can do?

Well, you can stand firm and make sure he actually leaves and clears his stuff out when the deadline comes around.

Make it clear to him that you will not act as his corresspondence address so he needs to deal with that - if he can pay friends for a room he could pau for a PO box.

I think given what you have described he and his girfriend would already be seen as living together and it may be worth mentioning to him that if she is found out she may be considered to be claiming fraudulently (and he may salso have issues with his car insurance, if he has not told them that the vehicle is no longer normally kept at yours overnight) and suggest to him that talk to her about it and resolve the issue. Ifthey don't want to move in together then he needs to find his own place, and pay bills there rather than at her homne, and then they are all clear with the authorities and can take the relationship as slowly as they want.

BigAunty

misterzim wrote: »

He's even asking friends who own homes if he can pay on a per-night basis at theirs while continuing to sleep at his girlfriends home..

Not a really grown up response to finding proper accommodation.

Why is he offering them a pay per night basis at theirs when he doesn't have much of a history of actually staying anywhere else other than his girlfriends? Is this a cheap or free way for him to re-direct his mail, store his belongings and a back-up in case there are relationship issues with the GF?

And what if his mates consent to this B&B arrangement and the GF ends it? He expects them to put him up indefinitely?

I can understand why neither he or his girlfriend want to make the conscious commitment to co-habitate (even though that's effectively what they are doing). There's either a psychological barrier there due to a newsish relationship or a method of protecting her benefits.

I can also understand his reluctance to pay rent (because he's not really used to standing on his own two feet financially and has got used to informal accommodation).

But trying to turn pals places into an AirBnB arrangement....? Is it perhaps because he doesn't have enough money to pay for the first month's rent and deposit for a new place?

But anyway, none of this is your problem. You've been a kind brother and it's not been as productive as you hoped. What deadline did you set for moving out?