Layabout niece

Pollycat

euronorris wrote: »

It could be that, with everything that has gone in the past, she doesn't feel worthy of having anything good happening in her life and self-sabotages (with things like college). A bit of a 'well everything else goes wrong/falls apart for me, this will too, so why bother even trying!' type attitude.

I agree the above is possible - sort-of a self-destruct mode.

Izadora

foolofbeans wrote: »

My attitude was great until she got excluded from college. I put up with hassle from her parents, bought her necessary clothing, paid for her to go to college and have given her a very decent weekly allowance. I fought her corner at college when she was suspended so she could return only for her to mess up again two days later.
I asked her to clean the windows as I feel she should not be sat around enjoying herself after getting excluded.
I don't think it unreasonable to expect her to walk to and from the bus stop to travel for work. I did the same when I got my first job and I know many others did too. Are you suggesting I take time out of working and getting younger children to school to ferry niece to and from work when she is the one who put herself in this situation? If so, can you tell me how I explain to the school why I can't drop off/pick up my children at the proper time and who is going to pay to keep a roof over our heads when I don't get paid as I'm spending my day ferrying my niece about?

There's a very big difference between "I would take her to the bus stop but it's completely impractical due to the demands of my job/other family members" and "however I thought about it and decided she can walk the two miles to and from the bus route as the family shouldn't be put out due to her behaviour". That suggests that you'd do it if she wasn't such a useless, lazy wastrel.

I can't know what your attitude to her was before but the way you talk about her now is quite unpleasant:

foolofbeans wrote: »

However just having niece lolling about the house is really starting to irritate me.

foolofbeans wrote: »

I am starting to begrudge paying for an ungrateful teenager which impacts on the rest of the household.

foolofbeans wrote: »

I begrudge the thought of working to pay for her to lounge about all day watching daytime tv.

foolofbeans wrote: »

I certainly don't want to treat her.

The fact that you resent her being there will most likely be coming across in the way you speak to her and, having been rejected by her parents, is something she's likely to be overly sensitive about. I don't think she should be allowed to get away with the bad behaviour but I do feel that trying to work out what has caused the issues would be more beneficial to everyone than simply treating her as though she's bad/lazy.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

They excluded her for that? I thought it would be for something serious, like theft or violence.

Not to say it doesn't get punished at school, it does, but, as far as I can see everyday at work, that's all fairly typical behaviour for teenagers. They certainly wouldn't be excluded for minor irritants such as that; it's hard enough to get rid of violent kids and thieving little ratbags.

Was she in the sixth form of a secondary school? It sounds as if it's one where they haven't quite got the hang of dealing with older teens and she'd have been far better off going to a college instead.


Plenty of sixth formers start later in the academic year; it's worth looking around and getting her into something that will help, even if it's just a couple of days a week.

I also wonder why she got thrown out - if it's for similar things, then her parents really haven't adjusted to having a teenager rather than a nine year old, and it's no wonder she's being like this now - they've deliberately kept her infantilised and thrown a major strop when (in a typically teenaged rubbish and annoying way) she's started to try and not be Daddy's Little Girl anymore, whilst not being equipped by her parents to cope with the day to day reality of it - if she was constantly told what to do and there are younger siblings, she's probably never experienced the joys of being able to sleep in, as her own body clock wants her to do, sit and watch TV or just be on her own.

She can look for a parttime job herself, you can explain that there's no allowance because you don't receive any help, but you'll still feed her because you care about her. It's realistic, honest and not patronising.


And remember, it could be worse - she could have found herself an 18 year old boyfriend and be spending every waking hour with him, only to end up pregnant and thereby destroying any hopes for the future.

dragonette

No matter what you think of her, treating someone in a vulnerable as though they are worthless and a burden does not encourage anyone to better themselves.

I'm 28, and if I lived with someone who said the sorts of comments you have posted, I'd not be doing any chores for them either. Certainly not put lots of effort into getting things right and being flexible and compromising on other issues.

It is possible she is not settling because she is convinced she will get thrown out again, afterall she just makes things worse by being there, right? It's not easy to deal with these mindsets, but a GP for depression or counselling and actually talking to her instead of at her might help.

BigAunty

justme111 wrote: »

.
I am afraid op will not qualify for foster allowance - no harm in asking of course but I guess no will be the answer.
.

There's something called 'kinship allowance' which has been mentioned on different threads for other posters on the benefit board. By the sounds of it, it is something that family carers have to fight for and which social services begrudge giving. I don't know much about how this operates, perhaps other posters will know. It's not a formal fostering fee received by those who foster non-related dependents, its for family members.

justme111 wrote: »

And so that if she chooses it herself there is no excuse of her not liking it/it being imposed. .

My nephew voluntarily chose, and even agitated for, moving between his mother and step-dad's house or his father and step-mum's. He also demanded to be taken in by social services and fostered. In not one of those places, did he settle down or improve his behaviour. Whenever he got his own way (he shuttled between parental houses on a number of occasions, putting pressure on them to force it), he simply never became happier at all.

So the OPs niece may choose and get her own way (or may not have this option as things that she feels are best for her are not considered this way by social services), and still never behave any better, nor accept any responsibility for the outcome.

BigAunty

Jagraf wrote: »

I mean offer her an environment where she might open up to you. The amount of cake I've offered rather than screaming at each other has been very worthwhile. Exclusion is a massive deal but she will just be defensive.

Yes, it's a fairly humiliating and humbling process to admit that you are in the wrong and have been fairly punished for poor behaviour. To be able to do this, you've got to have insight into why you did this, acknowledge the impact on others, accept responsibility for your own actions.

So there is a possibility that she doesn't care, she doesn't think about it and she's not the least bit sorry which is what it appears to the OP.

But there's also a chance that she's ashamed of it or can't bear to confront it, is just not mature enough to analyse it and prefers to ignore it, in which case she is keeping her feelings to herself.

In the case of my nephew, he was polite and well-mannered. However, he would lie through his teeth, quite convincingly, to conceal his wrong doing. When prevented with evidence, he would then sincerely apologise and try to make some kind of amends. However, we saw him do this dozens of times - steal, lie, apologise, then steal, lie and say sorry again.

pogofish

BigAunty wrote: »

If she has not managed to have a successful family relationship, hold down a place in college nor integrate with a family who is informally fostering her, then it's perhaps a sign she's is immature for her age and needs extra support.

The problem is that teens with emotional issues (even ones that they seem to relish and prioritise) is that at a time when they need to see the bigger picture, act on the support they receive and learn lessons from mistakes they made, they are probably at their most self-absorbed and short sighted, with behaviour and attitudes that make them repellent to people who want to support them.

I've seen this type of thing with my nephew. On paper, he ticked all the boxes for being vulnerable and requiring extra support from psychologists, education and social services. In reality, he behaved repugnantly and so any empathy or sympathy that his family and friends had for his situation quickly evaporated. He had tangible extra needs but his behaviour was so bad, that people found it difficult to see beyond his poor behaviour and attitude to the issues that caused it. He ended up homeless, in prison and a victim of violence. Yet from another perspective, he was a criminal, a nightmare of a tenant, a poor employee and a bothersome relative.

He always struck me as young for his age. I see that with some of the children of my friends with the odd one that always comes across as spectacularly mature and sensible who impress me no end and the odd one that comes across as very childish and selfish for their age.

And its also quite amazing just how many of them find themselves, get priorities and sort their lives out when they have to be self-reliant.

Ok, a period of wallowing in their own mire can ensue but once they realise that nobody is going to be there all the time to enable their torpor, IME most step-up to the challenges the rest of us have to deal with.

Their relationships with the rest of their family will likely improve too - or they decide to move-on from them altogether.

The vast majority of teenagers I've known with family/emotional issues like this have greatly benefited from getting their own lives together - with only a very few failures.

VfM4meplse

BigAunty wrote: »

I saw this type of behaviour from some lodgers I used to have in the past. I found them to be generally extremely poor at the most basic and obvious elements of cleaning and tidying, very lazy.

I never understood if this was because they had newly left home and just didn't have a clue when it came to basic household skills.

Or because they thought as they paid for their digs, they shouldn't have to do anything.

So my repeated experience of lodgers was that they just would just step out of the bath or step away from the kitchen without a backward glance. My time with them was characterised by things like over-flowing bins, skid-marks in the loo, hairs in the bath, crockery that was half washed up and put back in the cupboards all greasy.

_pale_ _pale_ _pale_ _pale_ _pale_

This is what I don't get - weren't they thoroughly ashamed to be thought of as having such dirty habits? Although I supppose its easier to live with your own mess than someone elses.

Reminds me of a chap I was seeing once - I would dread using his loo for a variety of reasons. The first one being the fossilised drops of urine on the floor. Dodging this was more than a little off-putting.

kitrat

I have to agree with the reply above, is that all she did to get excluded? Honestly that's tame compared to what some kids who are still in school do. Equally I think a child should have to do something pretty awful for me to chuck them out of my home and withdraw all support for them. Some kids mature faster than others and she is still a child, perhaps if she's so very immature that has something to do with the parenting she's had? She must be feeling pretty awful at the moment. It doesn't excuse her behaviour but I think she needs to have some love forced upon her! Also I would definitely be carp at cleaning windows at that age.

theoretica

Could you call social services for advice, particularly about jobs/legality thereof? Being at home all day would soon get depressing - could she share transport with your daughter to town and volunteer somewhere every school day?