Stay for the kids?

DianeBlack

Such a hard question. I would advise to talk seiously, if that won't help try to live apart for some time it will help you to understand the way you'll feel.

mumps

quarky wrote: »

It was actually my step-Dad's suggestion to apologise all round. After the reconciliation meeting where things didn't go quite so well, I said to my parents that "well, we have done what we can, and I am pretty much out of idea's to move forward now, and just get all of this behind us, so do you have any suggestions?". At that point, he suggested general apologies all around.


Mumps, she is busy I work from home occasionally too and can see it. Sure, it could be that she is just busier while I am there (if she wasn't, I might goof of a little more too), but actually, there is always stuff to do. Once the kids are at school and the dog is walked, that is often 1030-1100. Then there might be shopping, helping out at school, tidying, washing, ironing, gardening (not so much in winter though), as well as all of the other less frequent but seasonal stuff. In terms of getting a job etc. I have no doubt that it would be a lot harder for her in many ways if I left (of course I would think that though) and I don't want to leave, because of the effects on the kids, and because I think overall, things would be worse all around. Sometimes though, in those selfish moments, the thought is almost appealing though just to say goodbye to the whole lot of them (well, not my kids!).


Paddy's Mum, yes, there has been a lot of talk already. Some of my uncles/aunties don't seem to want to have anything to do with me/us, which is a shame. On one hand, I am angry with them (they have never actually spoken to me about what the issues are) and on the other hand, if they are so quick to judge, perhaps it is for the best. But I don't want it to get worse with the parts of my family that are still talking to me


Seven-Day-Weekend, thanks. Yes none of us have covered ourselves in glory, and I think there have been mistakes all around. I think the "correct" answer here though is that my wife and I were fine before my parents came back, so that is what I should be thinking about in terms of a solution.. It is difficult though not to feel torn in different directions..

If your wife was on benefits she would have been expected to be at work some years ago. Mothers who work manage to do what she does with the exception of helping at school. For many of us who have worked whilst bringing up children going for a walk with the dog is seen as relaxation not a chore.

As your wife and parents rowed about cleanliness is there any chance she is a OCD about housework? I have always had a job outside the house and can't imagine how you stretch it to working all day every day with additional stuff being done by another adult in the evenings and weekends. Your children are also old enough to be doing their share of chores.

Some of the words you use to describe your wife are worrying, controlling, unreasonable and quick tempered. On the other hand you also describe her as a great mother and I wonder what that means?

quarky

LannieDuck, she would probably just like me to do a lot more, without being asked. She is happy being a SAHM. I have told her that is welcome to go out to work if she wants, but in all honesty, I prefer (and she does as well) having her at home to be there for the kids.


Mumps, I know what you are saying, but if she wasn't walking the dog, one of us would be doing it in the evening, and he is a great dog, but a bit of a pain at times. And if she went out to work, we would end up doing all that stuff in the evenings/weekends, and I would rather spend time together then. So, yes, she is a bit OCD over house work, but I think her being at home works out for the best all around. As for what it all means, I don't know. She is difficult and strong willed (she also thinks I am controlling), and she also has very high expectations. I guess that is part of what makes her all of that, and a good mother.


I guess ultimately, parents should never come before the relationship of their kids, and that would remove some of the other issues created/exposed since then. It isn't as easy as it sounds though.

LannieDuck

quarky wrote: »

LannieDuck, she would probably just like me to do a lot more, without being asked. She is happy being a SAHM. I have told her that is welcome to go out to work if she wants, but in all honesty, I prefer (and she does as well) having her at home to be there for the kids.

Taking you at your word that she works hard during the week, would you consider that you both work full-time 9-5 Mon-Fri? In which case, the chores in the evenings and weekends should be fully shared.

Have you considered whether you do in fact do your fair share at weekends? I know you've said that you cook, but if there's a lot more that she has to do on Sat and Sun, might she have a point? Do you both get a chance to relax at the weekend?

duchy

quarky wrote: »

Paddy's Mum, yes, there has been a lot of talk already. Some of my uncles/aunties don't seem to want to have anything to do with me/us, which is a shame. On one hand, I am angry with them (they have never actually spoken to me about what the issues are) and on the other hand, if they are so quick to judge, perhaps it is for the best. But I don't want it to get worse with the parts of my family that are still talking to me


Seven-Day-Weekend, thanks. Yes none of us have covered ourselves in glory, and I think there have been mistakes all around. I think the "correct" answer here though is that my wife and I were fine before my parents came back, so that is what I should be thinking about in terms of a solution.. It is difficult though not to feel torn in different directions..

So what exactly is your step Dad sorry for ?
What exactly are they apologizing for ?

Or it is a "Everyone say sorry and we shove all the issues back under the rug" type apology ?

As for your uncles and aunties - They are clearly getting fed one side of the story from *someone* and presumably that someone isn't you or your wife.

Someone is undermining you and your wife's decisions.
Maybe your parents, maybe your aunties and uncles -maybe the lot of them - but as the other relatives could only have heard of these issues from your parents then it's fairly clear they are disrespecting you.

You don't need a divorce - You need to work out who has your back every day , who cares for your kids everyday, who doesn't slag you off behind your back to other family members and who agrees to see your parents even though they are rude to her and your Mum behaves inappropriately around your children and discusses topics around them that are unsuitable.

Your wife is clearly a straight shooter with principles who won't make fake apologies - although I'm not sure that is true of your step Dad or your Mum as if they were genuinely sorry they wouldn't be dragging other family into the issue biatching about you behind your back to them.

Yet you are super critical of your wife (and quite nasty implying she might make a point of looking busy when you work from home- yet you don't seem to have any reason to think this - except possibly it might be what YOU would do !!) . She sounds very loyal but I'm not sure you can see that.

If the roles were reversed and it was your wife's parents arguing with you - ignoring how you wanted things to be around the children, giving your kids nightmares with inappropriate conversation and getting all HER relatives to gossip about you and blank you -and your wife was telling you it was fine, you just needed to put up with it......that she didn't want you to protect the kids from any of the above - and in fact she was going to take the kids without you even though you didn't feel right about it as you knew if her parents pushed her she could be manipulated into leaving the children alone with the granny who scares them and insults you behind your back................... Would you think your wife was a marvelous wife- or would you feel rather disappointed and let down by her ?

itsanne

quarky wrote: »

It was actually my step-Dad's suggestion to apologise all round. After the reconciliation meeting where things didn't go quite so well, I said to my parents that "well, we have done what we can, and I am pretty much out of idea's to move forward now, and just get all of this behind us, so do you have any suggestions?". At that point, he suggested general apologies all around.


I think the "correct" answer here though is that my wife and I were fine before my parents came back, so that is what I should be thinking about in terms of a solution.. It is difficult though not to feel torn in different directions..

You said earlier that your wife has already apologised. Now your father suggests (and you seem to agree) that there should be apologies all round. Sorry if I've missed it, but what does your wife need to apologise for?


While I think many people can be too quick to separate rather than try to work things out, I don't think staying together only for the sake of the children is good for anyone - including the children. So you need to stay together (if that's what you decide to do) for the sake of your marriage and because you care for your wife. From what you write, it doesn't sound as if you really care for her other than as the mother of your children.

If things between the two of you were 'fine' (and that seems damning with faint praise!) before your parents arrived on the scene, how would they be if your parents went away again? If you think they'd be 'fine' again, perhaps you need to think a bit more pragmatically about how to improve them now. That might mean accepting that the relationship between your wife and parents will never be as you hope and working to find a compromise whereby you see your parents without her and slowly encourage her to be more comfortable about you taking the children to see their grandparents too.

I would strongly advise you to seek outside help if things are to improve. That's not suggesting all the fault is yours, just that the two of you need help. I hope things work out for you both.

mumps

LannieDuck wrote: »

Taking you at your word that she works hard during the week, would you consider that you both work full-time 9-5 Mon-Fri? In which case, the chores in the evenings and weekends should be fully shared.

Have you considered whether you do in fact do your fair share at weekends? I know you've said that you cook, but if there's a lot more that she has to do on Sat and Sun, might she have a point? Do you both get a chance to relax at the weekend?

Apart from cooking and washing up how much should need doing in the evenings and weekends? As an example my husband had a job where he worked alternate Saturdays, not good, but he got alternate Fridays off, very good. So he worked one 4 day week and one 6 day week. The week he worked 4 days he spent Friday changing beds, doing the washing, shopping, vacuuming the house etc. That weekend we considered from Friday 5pm till Sunday evening as free time, we would go out or stay at home and chill and cook together. The week he worked Saturday I would spend Saturday doing what he did on his Fridays off. We did hardly anything in the weekday evenings other than cooking a meal and clearing up afterwards. My kids were similar age to the OPs at the time and they knew their stuff needed to be tidied up before bed and bed straightened up in the morning, to be honest I don't think pulling a duvet straight is much of a job. Everyone knew washing needed to be in the basket by Friday morning/Saturday morning or it didn't get done. The only other things were gardening and walking the dog which we considered relaxing and the dreaded ironing which I did Sunday evening while everyone else cooked a meal and got their act together for the week ahead. Sunday ironing time was also my time to watch trash tv that no one else wanted to watch. If you want your ironing done put up with what mum wants on tv.

I think she is looking for things to do which is sad and might explain her short temper and controlling attitude.

Re the OPs parents talking to other family members, do people really think that is something you can control? If I was upset with something one of my kids had done, or their partners, I might well have a moan to my sister. Isn't that normal in families? I don't think they should then behave in an unpleasant way to my kids, that isn't on, but talking to my sister is not something my DIL is going to control.

duchy

quarky wrote: »

LannieDuck, she would probably just like me to do a lot more, without being asked. She is happy being a SAHM. I have told her that is welcome to go out to work if she wants, but in all honesty, I prefer (and she does as well) having her at home to be there for the kids.


Mumps, I know what you are saying, but if she wasn't walking the dog, one of us would be doing it in the evening, and he is a great dog, but a bit of a pain at times. And if she went out to work, we would end up doing all that stuff in the evenings/weekends, and I would rather spend time together then. So, yes, she is a bit OCD over house work, but I think her being at home works out for the best all around. As for what it all means, I don't know. She is difficult and strong willed (she also thinks I am controlling), and she also has very high expectations. I guess that is part of what makes her all of that, and a good mother.


I guess ultimately, parents should never come before the relationship of their kids, and that would remove some of the other issues created/exposed since then. It isn't as easy as it sounds though.

I doubt it's the amount you do so much as the fact you never just do it spontaneously -like noticing stuff needs taking out to the kitchen and loading in the dishwasher as a matter of course, .

My ex husband never really got just how much there is to do at home as a SAHM until I went back to work. I used to get criticism if I didn't get everything perfect , if dinner wasn't on the table the moment he walked in -even if I had a sick child to care for etc . I chose to have one of my working days as Saturday - partly to save on childcare and partly to give my husband and son more time together as he'd often not be home in the week until after our son was asleep.

His first day of caring for the whole day I left the house tidy, lunch prepared - all he had to do was look after one (very good) child and prepare dinner (nothing complicated and plenty of everything in the fridge) for the three of us for when I got home. I came home to the flat looking like a bomb had hit it, a very happy son and an utterly exhausted husband muttering "He needs so much attention and work" (He was a really low maintainance child btw). Needless to say no dinner and we ended up with pizza

My husband had a lot more respect for parents who stayed home after that -He assumed he knew what it was like but had never actually walked in my shoes and was shocked at just how much work is involved . He reckoned it was MUCH tougher than his high flying IT job He also didn't realize the impact the lack of adult conversation impacts on a parent at home too btw.

Do you respect your wife''s role as an equal partner in the marriage whose contribution is to keep a home and be a full time mother -or is there a part of you that thinks she has the easy option and doesn't appreciate your efforts as a wage earner ?

A man who just washes up or hoovers gets appreciated = a man who does it but makes a point of what a favour he's doing his wife by doing it- Is missing the point a bit

Your wife does sound like a great wife and Mum - yet you were talking about divorce because she wouldn't give in to your parents (not terribly reasonable) demands. I hope it's not too late for you and she doesn't decide that your disloyalty as a husband is unforgivable. If my husband was talking about divorce because I wouldn't be emotionally blackmailed by his Mum I'd be feeling very betrayed and would be revevaluating my marriage in your wife's shoes as I'd be wondering why you expect a loyal wife when you aren't a loyal husband.

LannieDuck

mumps wrote: »

Apart from cooking and washing up how much should need doing in the evenings and weekends?

I'm not sure, that's why I was asking. I have two small kids (2 and 4yo), and we have a huge amount of chores to do at the weekend. Even on those rare occasions that one of us has had the week off work, we still get left with things to do on Sat/Sun (albeit less than normal) - swimming lessons to take the kids to/from, the endless laundry loads, washing up after meals. I don't know what jobs older kids generate, but maybe homework supervision, cleaning football kit, whatever bedtime stuff the OP does with the kids during the week he doesn't mention as one of his weekend chores... etc.

Maybe he and his wife are left with very few jobs at the weekend.. but I thought it was worth a query.

tight_scotsman

i would just walk out and leave her to struggle on. She will soon be on the phone crying for you to come home. Especially when money becomes tight. i would deffo call her bluff.

As my old granny used to say "You dont miss the water until the well runs dry"