P4Parking UK Ltd - Ticketed for no permit on display in own bay

lachezza62

I have searched the forums but I cannot seem to find anything about P4Parking.

Basically I have been using the same parking bay for 5 years and have had the same car for 5 years. This is a residents parking in a housing association and two years ago they entered into whatever contract they have got with P4Parking. As a tenant for the housing association we were sent a letter informing us that they had taken this route of action because of unauthorised parking i.e. people who did not live on the estate parking in resident's bays!! I received two tickets each on a Saturday for non-display of my permit regardless of the fact that my car had been parked in the bay for a week hence the two consecutive Saturdays. I pay each week for this bay. I had written to P4Parking in respect of the first ticket to which they sent the usual gumph - this was done before coming onto the forum so I did not do anything in respect of the second ticket.

In respect of the first ticket they have sent me a POPLA to which I have not yet responded and which I realised should have been done by 15th May however on reading it the first point states that they (P4P) state I was improperly parked on private road however, the compound is a locked compound and only people who have been issued with a key by our housing association have access to park in the bays, and we have to pay a weekly fee, so how that can that be that I was improperly parked regardless of my permit not being on display? We are issued with a permit and key upon proof of insurance and MOT and they also keep a database of who has what bays, also my rent statement shows that I am charged for the bay.

I have now received a Reminder for the PCN however I have noted that it gives a different postcode to the one that is associated with my address and therefore my estate and they have, in my opinion stated that it was parked on the road when infact it was not i.e. my estate is 21 Joe Bloggs Estate, Buckingham Park, BP10 2PR (not my real address of course)...on the Notice to Keeper that they have sent me they have put the correct registration number, make and model of my vehicle however for the location they have put, for instance:

Buckingham Park Road BP10 2PS.

Firstly my car was not parked on the road it was parked off road and there is no road name to where the car was parked and secondly the postcode does not relate, as far as I am concerned, to my address. They say they obtained my details from the DVLA using a "reasonable cause request" as the vehicle detailed above was involved in a parking incident and they are now acting on behalf of their client P4Parking (UK) Ltd. The parking charge notice now remains outstanding since 28 March 2014. If I was not the driver, had already sold the vehicle or the vehicle was hired at the above time I will need to advise them who the driver was immediately. All parking charges are placed on hold upon receipt of an appeal and that TNC do not accept appeals as they did not issue the PCN and should be made in writing directly to P4Parking within 28 days of the date of their (TNCs) letter.

One thing that has come to mind is that where they are stating that the car was parked on Buckingham Park Road (sic) where there is no Buckingham Park Road in my borough does that not invalidate the ticket?

Any help you could point me to would be most appreciated.

Redx

I am never sure why people seem to think that some sort of error invalidates a private parking ticket

its an invoice, a demand for payment , so unless this goes before a judge for a decision nothing "invalidates" the invoice until 6 years has passed

as for private parking tickets, the NEWBIES sticky thread tells you all about them and appealing them, no matter which company its from

so the fact its from P4Parking is not really relevant as they all p*** in the same pot (so to speak)

lets face it , they just want your money, they arent interested in the fact that you have a valid reason to park there, if they did they would cancel the ticket and put you on a whitelist

so you should appeal any invoices you receive, if they fail to cancel you need to appeal at popla, but within 28 days (before the expiry date)

any historical invoices should likewise be appealed, but bear in mind they have 6 years to take you to court, so it can be a long drawn out process with debt collector threatograms as well

as you are paying for this space then I assume its in your lease, so you are entitled to what is known as "quiet enjoyment" and so should send the PPC a cease and desist letter, possibly thinking of court action if you own or lease that space

you should also be complaining to the managing agent to get your VRN on a whitelist and stop the fools ticketing your car too

but any invoices you do receive should be appealed, then appealed at popla, in good time , that is the correct process and one you are failing to do

then you also complain to the managing agent and try to get cancellations and remedies

parking companies rarely deal with actual parking issues, its more lucrative to harass the people who should be able to park, like yourself

wise up, learn the rules, play the game

Redx

as for your asserion about no P4PARKING, what about these I found in 30 seconds ?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5247636

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5244133

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5218789

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5188202

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5180260

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5149020

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5144438

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5138723

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4468023

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4750585

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5117705

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5126619

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5123048

Umkomaas

In respect of the first ticket they have sent me a POPLA to which I have not yet responded and which I realised should have been done by 15th May

Too late now I'm afraid. They are very strict about missed deadlines.

POPLA was the potential silver bullet to killing your charge dead. Now you're likely to receive (initially) quite aggressive debt collector letters for around 12 months. Debt collector letters have no standing and can be either ignored or responded to, requiring them to refer this back to the PPC.

The PPC (not the debt collectors) have 6 years to pursue any alleged debt, until it then become statute barred.

lachezza62

Thanks for your info.

In respect of the first ticket which I did appeal and to which I received a rejection dated 15 April I have just submitted the POPLA (some 15 days after the deadline??!!). As regards the second one to which I have received the NTK I shall most likely wait to see outcome of the first but in the meantime I will write and complain to my landlords...I do not have a lease as it is social housing but we have to pay a fee each week and as I said produce valid insurance and MOT documents BEFORE we are issued with a key and I do know that they keep a database of when one's permit runs out.

I really don't care about threats or debt collection letters, I'm not one to be intimidated or phaff about such things I didn't loose no sleep when I received bailiffs letters regarding non payment of council tax so I'm not going to loose sleep with this lot and I would quite happily go all the way to the court and reprsent myself before I pay them a single penny.

Fortunately I have been able to catch the "silver"bullet so will see what the outcome of that is.

Umkomaas wrote: »

Too late now I'm afraid. They are very strict about missed deadlines.

POPLA was the potential silver bullet to killing your charge dead. Now you're likely to receive (initially) quite aggressive debt collector letters for around 12 months. Debt collector letters have no standing and can be either ignored or responded to, requiring them to refer this back to the PPC.

The PPC (not the debt collectors) have 6 years to pursue any alleged debt, until it then become statute barred.

Half_way

Redx wrote: »

as you are paying for this space then I assume its in your lease, so you are entitled to what is known as "quiet enjoyment" and so should send the PPC a cease and desist letter, possibly thinking of court action if you own or lease that space

What does your lease say- if you want to you can turn the tables on the PPC for breaching your right to quiet enjoyment read this on CAG for inspiration:
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**

lachezza62

Umkomaas wrote: »

Too late now I'm afraid. They are very strict about missed deadlines.

POPLA was the potential silver bullet to killing your charge dead. Now you're likely to receive (initially) quite aggressive debt collector letters for around 12 months. Debt collector letters have no standing and can be either ignored or responded to, requiring them to refer this back to the PPC.

The PPC (not the debt collectors) have 6 years to pursue any alleged debt, until it then become statute barred.

Many thanks for your advice. Regarding the POPLA, well that was rejected because I was two days late however I haven't had anything yet in respect of the second ticket which was given a week after the first.

I have now received a colourful red letter from TNC who are trying to get me to pay the ticket but before I do this, or go to court could you advise on the following.

For both tickets they have put the site of my parking bay as Manor Park Road (Manor substitutes my correct address) however there is no Manor Park Road in the borough where I live and my road is actually Manor Park. The bays where we are allocated our space is off road inside the estate and there is no road name for it.

I have also noticed that they have not given the correct postcode and the one they have given actually belongs to a completely different neighbouring estate which is not owned by my landlords and is in fact council.

So what I want to know is if I left it to go to court would I have a winnable case for the fact that they have stated a road name that does not exist and furthermore they have stated a postcode for a completely different estate which they do not manage. Would it be of any use if I called my landlords or should I write to these bloodsuckers to advise them of their error (being that I am not able to challenge it now) and suggest that they cancel the tickets because of incorrect information on their ticket?

Umkomaas

Don't get involved with debt collectors they are powerless in the context of your ticket. Splitting hairs on road names won't get this cancelled now, but if it got to court it would be one of the things you'd show the judge as an example of shoddy administration on the part of the PPC as a start on dismantling their claim.

But do you honestly think they are going to spend hours and hours preparing papers for court, and then only with a 50:50 chance of winning if you put in a solid defence .... AND .... the cost to them would be almost twice as much as they would ever likely win against you. As they say in America .....

Do the math

lachezza62

Umkomaas wrote: »

Don't get involved with debt collectors they are powerless in the context of your ticket. Splitting hairs on road names won't get this cancelled now, but if it got to court it would be one of the things you'd show the judge as an example of shoddy administration on the part of the PPC as a start on dismantling their claim.

But do you honestly think they are going to spend hours and hours preparing papers for court, and then only with a 50:50 chance of winning if you put in a solid defence .... AND .... the cost to them would be almost twice as much as they would ever likely win against you. As they say in America .....

Do the math

Thanks for that advice....and apologies if I'm sounding a bit dumb but....should I just leave it as it is or should I write again to P4Parking as well as my landlords or just contact my landlords or do nothing until I hear from them again...?

The reason why I mentioned the road is that the car park is off road in a locked compound behind our flats whereas and surely if they are saying I was parked on a specific road (which is fictitious as it doesn't exist) and also giving a postcode for a completely different estate then apart from showing shoddy administration does it not also go to show my landlords that they have hired a bunch of jockeys?

Half_way

what does your lease/rental agreement say with regards to parking?

lachezza62

Half_way wrote: »

what does your lease/rental agreement say with regards to parking?

I do not have a lease or rental agreement however, when I moved into my property 5 years ago in order to be allocated a bay I had to supply my insurance, log book and mot certificate in order to receive my bay permit. My landlords didn't start using P4P until about 3 years ago and we were informed in a letter that this was because there had been complaints about people not being able to use their bays as someone else had parked there and also because cars were being abandoned...as to how true this was I have no idea. No contract or agreement has ever been signed in respect of being allocated a parking bay and we pay a nominal fee each week.