Brexit

CLAPTON

DandelionPatrol wrote: »

Your characterisation of my comment as racist is entirely false. As it happens, I am English and my position is merely that as English, we should not presume to criticise decisions made by the Scots for the Scots, nor for that matter by the Irish for the Irish.

But if you do so presume, then perhaps you would leave yourself no room to complain if the EU commission started campaigning in the referendum ...

you continue to make no sense

why ever would any democratic person object to the EU Commission expressing their view : what sort of authoritarian, undemocratic sort of person are you?

well we know, one that supports authoritarian, undemocratic SNP acolytes objecting to democracy for the peoples of the UK.

and yes, I criticise the Scottish 'anyone but the English' as racist

and for that matter I criticise the Irish government sending the condolences to the German people, on the death of Hilter.

but we clearly are not likely to agree.

DandelionPatrol

CLAPTON wrote: »

and for that matter I criticise the Irish government sending the condolences to the German people, on the death of Hilter.

but we clearly are not likely to agree.

Well, no, although I am not fussed either way about the Irish government sending the condolences to the German people, on the death of Hilter.

Now if it were Hitler you were talking about, we could agree.

Tromking

I'm not sure when the final judgment is due, but I can't but think that an 'unhelpful' decision by the ECHR re. the De Meneses case might put a tin hat on the European experiment for many in the UK.

kbrumann

Growing the economy through a reduction in non-tariff barriers and achieving a common market in services requires more European integration not a Brexit. If the UK leaves the EU, Britain’s influential elites will lobby Westminster to protect their industries, making your life more expensive. Who would want to return to the 1970s?

CLAPTON

kbrumann wrote: »

Growing the economy through a reduction in non-tariff barriers and achieving a common market in services requires more European integration not a Brexit. If the UK leaves the EU, Britain’s influential elites will lobby Westminster to protect their industries, making your life more expensive. Who would want to return to the 1970s?

by closer integration you would mean e.g. integration of legal systems : i.e. no more trial by jury of your peers?

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

by closer integration you would mean e.g. integration of legal systems : i.e. no more trial by jury of your peers?

An integration of legal systems could equally mean the end of the investigating magistrate and the introduction of the adversarial system.

There is a view, common in the UK, that the UK gives up everything (lb and oz, rights over her borders, farming system) to the EU. Funnily enough, when I've made an effort to speak to the French they think that they have given everything up to Europe and I suspect most other large countries do.

Small countries accept that they are tos't on ev'ry tide.

ruggedtoast

RJP33 wrote: »

Nothing will happen to them, the most likely outcome is both sets stay and the new rules only apply to those who haven’t moved yet. I don’t think even UKIP are proposing deporting existing EU workers.

Why does a trade deal have to have free movement of people?

There’s more British expats outside the EU than in it. British people are perfectly capable of getting a visa.

Because, exactly like with Scotland, the "Out" brigade are fervently promising the electorate that we can leave and suffer no incoveninence at all.

We'll get all the trade and the passport free travel as before, blah blah, with no downside.

And, as with Europe, the closer it gets to referendum day the more leaks will emerge from the EU saying exactly the opposite is going to happen.

The thing that seems to be missed, is that France and Germany will be in control of the EU, minus Britain. But they aren't going to be especially bothered about what the UK thinks its going to do with its Eastern Europeans who are running its service and manufacturing economy. Or about a million moaning British pensioners clogging up the Costas with their fish and chip shops and three words of Spanish.

France and Germany don't need Britain to have Polish plumbers, nor do they need Spain to be the beneficiary of British pensions. The UK will have a lot fewer cards to play than the Out lot are pretending we will.

We will simply have no choice but to beg for a free movement and trade treaty and if people think we are getting a bad deal now, they have no idea what is to come if we vote ourselves out.

ruggedtoast

Generali wrote: »

Did North Africa join the EU or does that simply make my point that border control is a myth?

This is what worries me. It doesn't seem like many of the Out people are even that aware of what the EU is.

It seems to have become a general euphemism for "unwanted foreigners" for many.

kabayiri

It's difficult to imagine UK having the kind of influence in the EU that Mr Cameron would desire.

Even if he finds sympathy with our desires to relax certain rules, he will meet stiff resistance from the recent entrants like Poland.

Each country in the Union will clearly have their own priorities, and we must accept we are just one country.

The idea that we have some prime role if we stay in the Union is unrealistic. We are just a member state.

ruggedtoast

CLAPTON wrote: »

I fully supported the right of the Scots to decide whether or not to have a vote on their own independence from the NI, Welsh and the English.
I fully support the right of the the people of the UK to decide whether they should have independence from EU.


Your racist view about the English are unwelcome.

No you didn't. You ranted endlessly about them all being racists against the English.

I think you should just lay your cards on the table Clapton.

You are retired, so no longer care about the enormous economic advantages that your generation enjoyed through being part of the EU.

You don't appear to travel, so don't see any reason why anyone would want to travel here.

You dislike what the UK has become, even though you have benefited immensely from it, and want to turn the clock back to 1950 for everyone else while enjoying the fruits of decades of economic expansion for yourself.

Selfish.