Brexit

BobQ

Generali wrote: »

A Brexit would put the UK into a rather interesting situation.

Off the top of my head, without fresh and quite complicated legislation:

1. Most Britons abroad would presumably become illegal immigrants as they have an EU passport rather than a UK one(?).
1.1 Britons working or retired in EU countries would be illegal immigrants.
2. Similarly, most people from EU countries in the UK would become illegal immigrants as the UK would no longer be a part of the single labour market.
3. The UK would have no trade agreements with any countries.
4. The UK would have no laws regarding fishing in national waters.
5. UK Citizens in the EU would no longer have access to health services without paying (as an example, admittance to an A&E bed in Aus unless you have a local health card or can prove insurance is AU$1300 typically, they take VISA but not AMEX).

Re the first few points, this may not be the case. See

researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/RP13-42

In one view, EU Member States have irreversibly vested the nationals of the Member States
with a “legal heritage of rights.
Many provisions of EU law create individual rights which are directly enforceable in national
courts (either horizontally between private individuals, or vertically by an individual against
the state). These cover areas such as free movement of workers, free movement of goods
and freedom of establishment. If any EU rights can be enforced after withdrawal, it is likely
to include these.
In another view, the UK and the EU would probably negotiate a transitional period, as a sort
of inverse of what countries joining the EU do. The negotiating period envisaged in Article 50
TEU is there for the purpose of “taking account of the framework for [a State’s] future
relationship with the Union”, which would cover issues such as vested rights.

The paper suggests that EU citizens may retain rights after exit. This could mean that existing EU citizens retain freedom of movement and the right is enforceable in national laws.

The paper also contains a lot of analysis of the trade issues.

I am not sure how much of 5 is covered by EU law and low much by bilateral agreements that provide basic cover (as for example between UK and Aus).

BobQ

RJP33 wrote: »

Given we spend at least 11bn net per year and growing, as per 2013, the onus is on someone pro-EU to prove that's money well spent.

I cannot dispute that any organisation could be run more efficiently, but you speak of 11bn as if it is a huge burden on just the UK.

I do not have up to date figures but if you look at

http://ec.europa.eu/budget/figures/interactive/index_en.cfm

you will see that in 2013 the EU budget represented about 283 Euros per year per EU citizen and only 6% of this was spent on the administrative processes of the EU.

Also the UK contribution amounts to about 180 Euros per head. While we are a net contributor, this is hardly a fortune and there are many intangibles that we get from this membership.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/nov/22/eu-budget-spending-contributions-european-union

BobQ

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/article1574716.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2015_06_27

The London Mayor favours a NO vote as a way of putting pressure on the EU.

Seems like a dangerous game.......

bigheadxx

Generali wrote: »

A Brexit would put the UK into a rather interesting situation.

Off the top of my head, without fresh and quite complicated legislation:

1. Most Britons abroad would presumably become illegal immigrants as they have an EU passport rather than a UK one(?).
1.1 Britons working or retired in EU countries would be illegal immigrants.
2. Similarly, most people from EU countries in the UK would become illegal immigrants as the UK would no longer be a part of the single labour market.
3. The UK would have no trade agreements with any countries.
4. The UK would have no laws regarding fishing in national waters.
5. UK Citizens in the EU would no longer have access to health services without paying (as an example, admittance to an A&E bed in Aus unless you have a local health card or can prove insurance is AU$1300 typically, they take VISA but not AMEX).

As with the Scexit(!), a Brexit would cause immense upheaval and cost. Even if I'm wrong, something that happens occasionally apparently, and there would be nil private economic cost to a Brexit the Governmental cost, which would have to be passed on through taxes today or tomorrow, would be massive.

Britain is not oppressed by the EU any more than Scotland is oppressed by the UK. You can stand outside the Elysee and sing 'God Save the Queen' or even 'God Damn the French' and you won't be arrested. What's to be gained from quitting apart from the right to use the rod, furlong and pint?

More nonsense arguments. Brexit will not end migration but make it appear managed. The EU is old and crusty just like it's founder members. The UK IS growing g and will be the most youthful and largest European nations in a decade. We do not need to be in anymore, it's mission accomplished and time to soft power our way back into the far corners of the world.

RJP33

bigheadxx wrote: »

More nonsense arguments. Brexit will not end migration but make it appear managed.

With the added bonus of treating people fairly rather than the current ridiculous situation where a doctor from India has to spend thousands and wait months for a visa for a job on our skilled shortage list, while someone from the EU can come here to work without having a job, and then displace a UK worker.

Thrugelmir

bigheadxx wrote: »

More nonsense arguments. Brexit will not end migration but make it appear managed. The EU is old and crusty just like it's founder members. The UK IS growing g and will be the most youthful and largest European nations in a decade. We do not need to be in anymore, it's mission accomplished and time to soft power our way back into the far corners of the world.

The power is moving east. The days of the Western Colonial Empires ruling the world are well and truly past.