Brexit

S0litaire

CLAPTON wrote: »

if that were so, why then does the EU impose tariffs on imports to the EU area?

To make EU made products cheaper than those being imported from outside the EU.

CLAPTON

S0litaire wrote: »

To make EU made products cheaper than those being imported from outside the EU.

yes that would be the result but one won't think that would be the reason

is it to the the overall advantage of the countries of the EU or to the overall disadvantage?

would it be the same principle for a single country like the UK?

antrobus

RJP33 wrote: »

Yes, for EU goods. Having decided to leave I assume in the 2 year negotiating period, unless our government is insane (let’s put that to one side here), we’ll have signed a bunch of free trade deals with non-EU countries giving consumers access to cheaper goods than we have now.....

Really?

You think we can negotiate a "bunch of free trade deals with non-EU countries giving consumers access to cheaper goods than we have now" in two years?

TTIP has been talked about for around twenty years. There is still no agreement.:)

RJP33 wrote: »

....Then if the EU wants to impose tariffs on our goods, and they won’t since they sell more to us so it’s not in their interests, we reciprocate and consumers make their choice.

It's UK consumers who will pay the price. We will not be 'better off' as a result.

RJP33 wrote: »

...Canada for example makes a packet out of tariffs.

Really?

Let's see.

Outlook for Budgetary Revenues
http://www.budget.gc.ca/2015/docs/plan/ch5-2-eng.html#Outlook_for_Budgetary_Revenues

For 2013-14 'Customs import duties' produced revenues of CAD 4.2 bn out of 'Total budgetary revenues' of CAD 271.7 bn. That's a massive 1.55% of government revenue. You think that's "a packet"?

CAD 4.2 bn is about GBP 2.2 bn, or less than a halfpenny on the basic rate. Or as HM Treasuey would put it, SFA.:)

antrobus

CLAPTON wrote: »

yes that would be the result but one won't think that would be the reason

is it to the the overall advantage of the countries of the EU or to the overall disadvantage?

would it be the same principle for a single country like the UK?

Generally speaking, tariffs act to the disadvantage of consumers. Which is why people think 'free trade' is a Good Thing.

CLAPTON

antrobus wrote: »

Generally speaking, tariffs act to the disadvantage of consumers. Which is why people think 'free trade' is a Good Thing.

The question posed was whether tariffs are to the overall good of the EU (or country) or not (a different question as to whether consumer prices might be cheaper).

Whether 'people' think 'free trade' is a Good thing is highly questionable given the world and the EU is awash with tariff barriers.

If free trade is a 'good' thing, it gives rise to the question of why we want to be a member of the EU which isn't acting in the best interest of the people.

antrobus

CLAPTON wrote: »

The question posed was whether tariffs are to the overall good of the EU (or country) or not (a different question as to whether consumer prices might be cheaper).

Whether 'people' think 'free trade' is a Good thing is highly questionable given the world and the EU is awash with tariff barriers.

If free trade is a 'good' thing, it gives rise to the question of why we want to be a member of the EU which isn't acting in the best interest of the people.

Trade liberalisation
http://www.oecd.org/tad/tradeliberalisation.htm

CLAPTON

antrobus wrote: »

Trade liberalisation
http://www.oecd.org/tad/tradeliberalisation.htm

it doesn't seem to address the issue of why the UK wants to be a member of the EU which doesn't have free trade

RJP33

antrobus wrote: »

You think we can negotiate a "bunch of free trade deals with non-EU countries giving consumers access to cheaper goods than we have now" in two years?

Yes absolutely, if we don’t then the government has failed.

antrobus wrote: »

TTIP has been talked about for around twenty years. There is still no agreement.[IMG]file:///C:\Users\priceri\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

If you’re the US it’s much easier to negotiate with one developed country than 28, including some risky ones J

antrobus wrote: »

It's UK consumers who will pay the price. We will not be 'better off' as a result.

Did you know the EU imposes significant tariffs on non-EU goods now to make their own more competitive? Imagine consumer prices if they weren't there.

antrobus wrote: »

For 2013-14 'Customs import duties' produced revenues of CAD 4.2 bn out of 'Total budgetary revenues' of CAD 271.7 bn. That's a massive 1.55% of government revenue. You think that's "a packet"?

1.55% of revenue for a country with significantly lower GDP than the UK is a packet. Try multiplying that out vs the UK revenue, you're looking at around 10bn pounds.

antrobus

CLAPTON wrote: »

it doesn't seem to address the issue of why the UK wants to be a member of the EU which doesn't have free trade

The EU has free trade. That's the point of the EU.

antrobus

RJP33 wrote: »

Yes absolutely, if we don’t then the government has failed.....

Then your government will fail.

RJP33 wrote: »

...If you’re the US it’s much easier to negotiate with one developed country than 28, including some risky ones J...

It's much easier, and far more worthwhile, to negotiate with one entity representing a big market representing almost an entire continent that one little country.

RJP33 wrote: »

..Did you know the EU imposes significant tariffs on non-EU goods now to make their own more competitive? ..

Yes.

RJP33 wrote: »

..
Imagine consumer prices if they weren't there.

They'd be lower.

Although I'm not sure why you made that point. You're the one who thinks we'd be better off with import tariffs, not me.:)

RJP33 wrote: »

...1.55% of revenue for a country with significantly lower GDP than the UK is a packet. Try multiplying that out vs the UK revenue, you're looking at around 10bn pounds.

Err, Canada's GDP per capita is higher than the UK's. And 1.55% of Total budgetary revenues is equivalent to 0.22% of Canadian GDP.

I suspect that what you've done is this; UK government revenues are around £650 bn, and 1.55% is around 10bn pounds, so there! But what you have clearly failed to realise is that is 1.55% of revenue for the Canadian Federal budget alone; it does not include the revenues of the state and municipal governments which is much greater. Whereas that £650 bn for the UK includes local taxes, because the UK is not federal.

If you look at the consolidated numbers;
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/govt01a-eng.htm

then for 2009 customs duties were only 0.69% of revenues.

I would therefore conclude that Canada does not make a "packet out of tariffs".