Brexit

DandelionPatrol

RJP33 wrote: »

More British people work and live outside the EU than in it, people are more than capable of getting a visa.

There's a lot of scaremongering at the moment, people and the economy will quickly adjust to new opportunities.

Let's be clear about this. The Polish PM has recently been quite outspoken in favour of free movement of labour. If free movement of labour no longer applies to the UK, we will be sending Poles, Czechs, Bulgarians and whoever home. As soon as that happens, you can be quite certain that British workers will first of all need the visas you mention and secondly that those visas will become scarce.

Now to me, it does not matter that more British people work outside the EU than in the I]rest of the[/I EU, they are still British people who would be affected

As for the scare mongering, the scare for me derives from the threat to take the UK out of free movement, because it follows on that a natural consequence will be to send Poles, Lithuanians, Latvians etc home. If this is not going to be a consequence, then what on earth is the point of stopping free movement of Labour?

RJP33

DandelionPatrol wrote: »

Let's be clear about this. The Polish PM has recently been quite outspoken in favour of free movement of labour. If free movement of labour no longer applies to the UK, we will be sending Poles, Czechs, Bulgarians and whoever home. As soon as that happens, you can be quite certain that British workers will first of all need the visas you mention and secondly that those visas will become scarce.

We won’t, not even UKIP have suggested deporting people who arrived here legally because as you say it will be reciprocated. Plus I would imagine the majority of those Brits are net contributors to their local economy.

DandelionPatrol wrote: »

As for the scare mongering, the scare for me derives from the threat to take the UK out of free movement, because it follows on that a natural consequence will be to send Poles, Lithuanians, Latvians etc home. If this is not going to be a consequence, then what on earth is the point of stopping free movement of Labour?

I think the idea is to treat all nationalities fairly – at the moment an Indian doctor has to wait months and spend thousands to fill a key skill shortage yet someone from the EU can come and work in a coffee shop.

Unskilled immigration is not a benefit to this country, skilled is. We would regain that control and treat everyone equally at the same time.

CLAPTON

what a shocking day for Scotland's MPs and Scottish voters.

they showed their true totalitarian and undemocratic nature by voting against allowing the people of the UK the right to vote, in a referendum, on the EU

DandelionPatrol

CLAPTON wrote: »

what a shocking day for Scotland's MPs and Scottish voters.

they showed their true totalitarian and undemocratic nature by voting against allowing the people of the UK the right to vote, in a referendum, on the EU

SNP manifesto:

Opposing withdrawal from the European Union
At least 330,000 Scottish jobs – around one in seven of all jobs - are dependent on our membership of the single market. That is why we will oppose a referendum on membership of the EU. Being part of Europe is good for business and it supports jobs in Scotland and across the UK.

If an in/out EU referendum does go ahead, we will seek to amend the legislation to ensure that no constituent part of the UK can be taken out of the EU against its will. We will propose a 'double majority' rule - meaning that unless England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland each vote to leave the EU, the UK would remain a member state.

It seems to me that they have a [substantial] democratic mandate from Scotland to vote against a referendum.

CLAPTON

DandelionPatrol wrote: »

SNP manifesto:


It seems to me that they have a [substantial] democratic mandate from Scotland to vote against a referendum.

Yes, which is why, you, being an clever and intelligent chap, will have noticed I condemned both the SNP and the voters of Scotland.

Those that wanted a referendum on their own exit from the UK, wanted to deny the same right of people of the UK to have a vote on their own exit from Europe.

You have totally missed the difference between having an honourable view on a subject and wanting to deny other people from right to express a different view.

A disgrace to themselves.

Obviously, the usual SNP acolytes will support their great leaders, like committed nationalists in the past.

Catapa

CLAPTON wrote: »

what a shocking day for Scotland's MPs and Scottish voters.

they showed their true totalitarian and undemocratic nature by voting against allowing the people of the UK the right to vote, in a referendum, on the EU

What a rubbish. We live in a parliamentary democracy.

DandelionPatrol

CLAPTON wrote: »

Yes, which is why, you, being an clever and intelligent chap, will have noticed I condemned both the SNP and the voters of Scotland.

Those that wanted a referendum on their own exit from the UK, wanted to deny the same right of people of the UK to have a vote on their own exit from Europe.

You have totally missed the difference between having an honourable view on a subject and wanting to deny other people from right to express a different view.

A disgrace to themselves.

Obviously, the usual SNP acolytes will support their great leaders, like committed nationalists in the past.

If you don't like it, you could always try for English independence from the UK and legislation for an England only referendum. Or you could convince the Tories to have an England only referendum.

I don't think that protestations such as yours sound so good coming from English lips. This is a matter the Scots decided for themselves and we should let the Scots be the ones to call the SNP 'totalitarian and undemocratic' if they are so minded.

The Union of E, S, W and NI is right now more fragile than the EU is, and the issue of the EU is exposing the fracture lines. It does not help that an almost exclusively English party, the Tories, is calling the shots at Westminster, when the Scots according to the election vote have already given the SNP a mandate based on Manifesto commitments for continued EU membership.

chewmylegoff

Mandelbrot wrote: »

Says who?
It is the Government and in particular, the Home Office (through Border Force & 'Immigration Enforcement' :huh:) that lacks ruthlessness (and even competence).
The 'nation' has little say on the matter.

The government didn't just appear - it was elected by the nation. We could have all voted UKIP or even BNP but we didn't suggesting that we as a nation do not collectively support their policies.

CLAPTON

DandelionPatrol wrote: »

If you don't like it, you could always try for English independence from the UK and legislation for an England only referendum. Or you could convince the Tories to have an England only referendum.

I don't think that protestations such as yours sound so good coming from English lips. This is a matter the Scots decided for themselves and we should let the Scots be the ones to call the SNP 'totalitarian and undemocratic' if they are so minded.

The Union of E, S, W and NI is right now more fragile than the EU is, and the issue of the EU is exposing the fracture lines. It does not help that an almost exclusively English party, the Tories, is calling the shots at Westminster, when the Scots according to the election vote have already given the SNP a mandate based on Manifesto commitments for continued EU membership.

I fully supported the right of the Scots to decide whether or not to have a vote on their own independence from the NI, Welsh and the English.
I fully support the right of the the people of the UK to decide whether they should have independence from EU.


Your racist view about the English are unwelcome.

DandelionPatrol

CLAPTON wrote: »

Your racist view about the English are unwelcome.

Your characterisation of my comment as racist is entirely false. As it happens, I am English and my position is merely that as English, we should not presume to criticise decisions made by the Scots for the Scots, nor for that matter by the Irish for the Irish.

But if you do so presume, then perhaps you would leave yourself no room to complain if the EU commission started campaigning in the referendum ...