Brexit

DandelionPatrol

Generali wrote: »

If you look down the list, taking out the ones at the top with tiny populations or in the middle of vicious and bloody wars, you see that people are, net, moving to rich countries. That is going to happen whether you like it or not. EU membership is certainly not going to make an iota of difference.

So coming out of the EU will definitely reduce the influx across our borders if it makes us distinctly poorer.

ruggedtoast

The notion that any trade deal the UK tried to negotiate with Europe wouldn't have some element of free movement baked into it is fanciful to say the least.

There are 2.2 million (electorally disenfranchised) Brits in the EU who don't want to be forced come back. There are 2.3 million (electorally disenfranchised) Europeans in the UK who don't want to be thrown out.

What precisely to do the anti immigration people think is going to happen to these 4.5 million people if they get their way?

At best nothing will change and at worst we'll be inundated with 2 million annoyed and probably unemployed ex-expats.

RJP33

Nothing will happen to them, the most likely outcome is both sets stay and the new rules only apply to those who haven’t moved yet. I don’t think even UKIP are proposing deporting existing EU workers.

Why does a trade deal have to have free movement of people?

ruggedtoast wrote: »

At best nothing will change and at worst we'll be inundated with 2 million annoyed and probably unemployed ex-expats.

There’s more British expats outside the EU than in it. British people are perfectly capable of getting a visa.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

RJP33 wrote: »

Why does a trade deal have to have free movement of people?.

There is a difference between a trade deal and membership of the single market.

RJP33

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

There is a difference between a trade deal and membership of the single market.

There is, but nobody seems to have explained why a common / free market (which still hasn't been finished) needs free movement of people, rather than just goods and services.

The impression I get is most people would happily stick with just the free trade.

antrobus

RJP33 wrote: »

There is, but nobody seems to have explained why a common / free market (which still hasn't been finished) needs free movement of people, rather than just goods and services.

The impression I get is most people would happily stick with just the free trade.

Because it's a single market.

In the same way as the UK is a single market, and people can freely move from Guildford to Glasgow as the fancy takes them.

RJP33

antrobus wrote: »

Because it's a single market.

In the same way as the UK is a single market, and people can freely move from Guildford to Glasgow as the fancy takes them.

The UK is a sovereign country, the EU isn't (yet).

Thrugelmir

antrobus wrote: »

Because it's a single market.

In the same way as the UK is a single market, and people can freely move from Guildford to Glasgow as the fancy takes them.

If Turkey joins the EU. That's another potential 76 million people with the ability to move. At what point will ordinary people simply just say enough?

There's little likelihood of the migration from North Africa ceasing either.

RJP33

I'm a strong supporter of skilled immigration but 300k a year, or whatever it is now, is clearly unsustainable for a country our size.

Not having control of the quality or quantity of immigrants is a massive sovereignty issue.

CLAPTON

RJP33 wrote: »

I'm a strong supporter of skilled immigration but 300k a year, or whatever it is now, is clearly unsustainable for a country our size.

Not having control of the quality or quantity of immigrants is a massive sovereignty issue.

the number of migrants coming to the UK is about 600,000 per annum
there is a emigration of about 300,000 per annum