Brexit

danothy

Generali wrote: »

Well they've been discussing the ISO xxxx kiddie child seats over here since I arrived in 2008 and seem nowhere closer to concluding whether they should be legal or not.

Remind me again how long it took to get that trade agreement with China sorted, would you?

michaels

pertgave wrote: »

German companies employ over 400,000 people in the UK. The jobs linked to industrial supply chains will drop in case barriers to the flow of goods and labour are increased again.

Like Eon - I'm sure that if we were not in the EU they would sack all those call centre workers.....

Generali

danothy wrote: »

Remind me again how long it took to get that trade agreement with China sorted, would you?

About a decade:

http://dfat.gov.au/trade/agreements/chafta/negotiations/Pages/about-the-negotiations.aspx

The Australian Government took submissions from everyone from the Ablone Association to the World Association to Investigate the Persecution of the Falun Gong.

chewmylegoff

Generali wrote: »

To clarify I mean free trade.

For example, I can't import a car from Europe without making substantial changes to it. For example my parcel shelf requires a small hook in it to hook a kid's car seat to. This means car companies can and must charge me a lot more than for a car made for a market of hundreds of millions.

That must be the reason why e.g. a new Audi only costs about 20% less in Australia as compared to the UK (net of GST/VAT). Imagine how much cheaper it would be than the UK if you didn't have to have that parcel shelf thingy.

Generali

chewmylegoff wrote: »

That must be the reason why e.g. a new Audi only costs about 20% less in Australia as compared to the UK (net of GST/VAT). Imagine how much cheaper it would be than the UK if you didn't have to have that parcel shelf thingy.

Is that true? We're always told they cost loads more here.

You pay a huge stamp duty when you buy a car (seriously!) and there's also a luxury car tax on cars that cost more than I'm likely to pay for a car.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Generali wrote: »

We're always told they cost loads more here.

The difference is not as big as it was a decade ago but it's still more expensive in Aus.

For example, a new base model Audi A6 Allroad 3.0TDI is £45K in the UK, and $112K in Aus.

kabayiri

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The arguments presented by the splitters are exactly the same as those used by the Scot Nats before the referendum.
....

Splitters :rotfl:

You seem spooked RT.

I think there are many people who are genuinely undecided on the issue. I count myself as one.

I'd like to think we have some time and freedom to explore the issue, before I become a splitter and join the Judean People's Front

antrobus

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays wrote: »

??? I haven't advocated anything. I'm perfectly happy with the status quo. I merely thought it was ludicrous to suggest our only options are those drawn up by three frankly inferior countries.......

To recap, what I said was

antrobus wrote: »

.....

As far as I'm aware, there are four alternatives;

- the Norwegian option
- the Swiss option
- the Turkish option
- the Clean break option

...

That would be four options, not three.

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays wrote: »

...Bankrupt Greece is managing to stick 2 fingers up to the EU. You can be absolutely sure that if we needed to come up with a British solution, that we have the bargaining power and the acumen to come up with a solution that's on our terms.

I suspect that your view of Britain's place in the global order is as accurate as your arithemetic.:)

P.S. Norway has the world's biggest Sovereign Wealth Fund (USD 900 bn or so, and rising) but you seem to regard them as "frankly inferior". That's the kind of inferiority I'd happily embrace.:rotfl:

schneckster

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The arguments presented by the splitters are exactly the same as those used by the Scot Nats before the referendum.

Seriously? Wow!
They're nowhere near the same as the Nats. And the list you give below shows that.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

According to these people we can vote ourselves out and still have:
Complete freedom of movement with no restrictions

Wrong. Who said that? Source please! Leave the EU, we should expect to be on passport control - which we have now in any case, don't we? Inside EU borders, there is still free movement regardless of passport.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Full enjoyment of all trade treaties when they suit us

Totally wrong. Leaving cancels them. But then it gives the UK the ability to negotiate our own trade agreements with whomever we want - something the UK cannot do whilst an EU member. This is why there is no trade agreement with most of the world, including China and the US. And the EU will want to have a trade agreement with us afterwards - we're their biggest export market!

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Cherry pick non EU trade partners when they don't

No, be able to trade with whomever we want - see previous point. I mean, we currently sell millions of pounds of chocolate to the Swiss! Yes, the Swiss! It's like selling ice to the Eskimoes!

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Continue working within joint frameworks like the Erasmus fund for Higher Education, when it suits us

That would come under agreements with relevant countries. You don't need to cede sovereignty into full political union to get that.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Take all the things we like from EU security and stability and nothing that we dont like

EU stability? Are you serious?? We would decide what's best for us with no-one to overrule us. We don't have to do anything with the EU that we don't want to, that is the whole point.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

"Import" EU workers when it suits us

Or, control our borders the way we want without being overruled by unelected bureaucrats in a foreign capital?

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Decide on the day whether we would like to commit to EU projects

Or decide to commit to projects anywhere else in the world, something EU membership currently prevents us from doing.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Have access to all the education and capacity building projects in the EU, when it suits us

What did we do before the EU came along, eh?

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Rely on them not to get in the way of our energy security

You mean them making us rely on them by ordering the closure of coal fired power stations in the UK, while Germany opens up several new ones? Yes, very reliable. Or how about the EU relying on Russia not to get in the way of EU energy security whilst the EU pokes them with a pointy stick???

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Keep stuffing our supermarkets with all the things we couldnt get 20 years ago, every day

So we can't buy food from outside the EU unless we're in the EU, is that it? I better send that Ghanaian coffee back, then... mind you, the EU are looking to ban coffee, it seems!

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Not kick out all our ex pats.

You really think that would happen? I mean, really? Wouldn't we do the same with their's? Or do you think, perhaps, legal status before the break would be negotiated to continue after (see Lisbon Treaty, Article 50 where a relationship is to be negotiated).

ruggedtoast wrote: »

In other words, we can vote ourselves out, throw them into turmoil, and generally just really antagonise them, but they'll carry on giving us "super best friend" status forever.

They antagonise us on a daily basis while expecting us to give them "super best friend" staus forever!
Far better to vote ourselves out and reconnect with the rest of the world which is growing more prosperous every day, whilst the EU declines into stagnation and recession, slowly eroding the sovereignty and prosperity of any country that remains.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

It's complete fantasy, and to be frank, a bit dim.

I apparently won't be able to buy my Ghanaian coffee if we left, yet I'm a bit dim?? Politeness prevents me from answering this in the manner it actually deserves! :rotfl:

schneckster

Generali wrote: »

Part of the problem of 'justifying' the EU is the intangible gains from free trade.

These are, I strongly suspect, absolutely huge. I have absolutely no way to prove that though.

The ONS disagrees, I'm afraid...
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/elmr/economic-review/december-2012/sty-exports-overtake.html

I'm looking for more current data as the linked data stops at September 2012. But if you look at the trends in that data, more current data is likely to continue in the same way.

Schneckster