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Brexit
Comments
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the number of migrants coming to the UK is about 600,000 per annum
there is a emigration of about 300,000 per annum
You'll be swamped Clappers, swamped. Soon you won't be able to get in the door of the village post office for Romanian refugees, and they'll have purchased every single copy of the Telegraph before you've had a look in.
The Chinese takeaway won't have a single battered prawn ball for sale as they'll all have been eaten by Chinese people.
The village green will be chock a block with Indians engaging in some odd and foreign activity, like playing cricket.
And what with all the Eastern Europeans stampeding into the shires, your local church might have to contend with being half full for once.0 -
The UK is a sovereign country, the EU isn't (yet).
But the EEA is a single market, and extends beyond the EU's borders. (OK, only Norway really counts.:)) But it is what it is.Thrugelmir wrote: »If Turkey joins the EU. That's another potential 76 million people with the ability to move.....
That's correct.Thrugelmir wrote: »... At what point will ordinary people simply just say enough? ...
Don't know. You'd have to ask them.Thrugelmir wrote: »..There's little likelihood of the migration from North Africa ceasing either.
Very likely.0 -
The UK is a sovereign country, the EU isn't (yet).
The citizens of any EU member nation have the right to live and work anywhere in the Union.
That right is also extended on a reciprocal basis to the citizens of any state that wishes to be in the single market. As operating a true single market requires the free movement of goods, capital, services and people.
Nations with 'trade deals' do not have that right. And they also do not have the advantages of being within the single market.
Their goods are subject to customs paperwork, duties and tariffs, their people may face restricted ability to enter and work, and their companies cannot operate freely in the single market without significant bureaucratic hurdles.
The UK within the single market is an attractive place for many large multinational companies to base their EU headquarters or manufacturing facilities.
The UK with just a trade deal would be far less attractive and it is beyond doubt that many companies would have no choice but to move a significant portion of their activities, and the jobs they create, elsewhere.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
Why does it require the free movement of people?HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »That right is also extended on a reciprocal basis to the citizens of any state that wishes to be in the single market. As operating a true single market requires the free movement of goods, capital, services and people.
Such as what? What about the disadvantages?HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Nations with 'trade deals' do not have that right. And they also do not have the advantages of being within the single market.
Your argument is exactly the same as people used for the Euro in the 90s – people won’t do business here, UK will be less attractive, businesses and jobs will leave etc. It’s no more true now.HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »The UK with just a trade deal would be far less attractive and it is beyond doubt that many companies would have no choice but to move a significant portion of their activities, and the jobs they create, elsewhere.0 -
Your argument is exactly the same as people used for the Euro in the 90s – people won’t do business here, UK will be less attractive, businesses and jobs will leave etc. It’s no more true now.
You really do not seem to understand.
Britain has become fully integrated into the single market.
Many companies, such as car manufacturers, Airbus, etc rely on assembling parts of their products in Europe and parts in the UK and being able to integrate those operations seamlessly. Without having to deal with any customs bureaucracy, duties, tariffs, etc.
If the UK left the single market and reverted to negotiating some sort of trade deal, then that would become far more difficult, and in reality would make many of those situations no longer viable.
It is an order of magnitude more challenging than simply saving a few fractions of a percent on exchange rates as was the argument for the Euro.
If you are a foreign company, and you want to establish a new facility within the single market to service the single market so as to take advantage of the reduced bureaucracy and freedom of movement of goods, capitol, services and people that such location gives you, then quite obviously it needs to be located in the single market.
That is the whole point....“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
ruggedtoast wrote: »You'll be swamped Clappers, swamped. Soon you won't be able to get in the door of the village post office for Romanian refugees, and they'll have purchased every single copy of the Telegraph before you've had a look in.
The Chinese takeaway won't have a single battered prawn ball for sale as they'll all have been eaten by Chinese people.
The village green will be chock a block with Indians engaging in some odd and foreign activity, like playing cricket.
And what with all the Eastern Europeans stampeding into the shires, your local church might have to contend with being half full for once.
you and Hamish know only the price of everything : the value of nothing
you celebrate the high price of housing in London and the SE
you celebrate the people's increasing dependency on imported foods, oil, gas, essential electronics etc
you celebrate lack of access of ordinary people to quality health care, decent housing, decent wages etc.
you and Hamish are all right Jack and don't give a damn for ordinary people0 -
Companies were and are based here regardless of the EU because it’s a rich country in which to do business, in the same way the US, Canada, Australia etc are. The Euro argument in the 90s was that the financial sector would disappear to Frankfurt, didn’t happen. Same here.
There’s no reason why the UK would not have access to the single market for trade if we were to leave the EU, the EU has a massive trade deficit with the UK and with WTO guidelines free trade isn’t going to stop if we choose to leave. If it did we’d make a fortune on tariffs and it would heavily impact 12% of EU exports.
And that’s not covering the fact that the UK would be able to sign its own free trade deals again elsewhere in the world to further boost business.0 -
...There’s no reason why the UK would not have access to the single market for trade if we were to leave the EU, the EU has a massive trade deficit with the UK and with WTO guidelines free trade isn’t going to stop if we choose to leave. If it did we’d make a fortune on tariffs and it would heavily impact 12% of EU exports.....
I don't believe that anyone has ever suggested that the UK would not have access to the single market if we were to leave the EU. The question would be on what terms the UK has access.
P.S. The EU does not have a "massive trade deficit with the UK". The EU has a trade surplus with the UK.
https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/EUOverseasTrade/Pages/EuOTS.aspx.....And that’s not covering the fact that the UK would be able to sign its own free trade deals again elsewhere in the world to further boost business.
Indeed it could. Are there any particular reasons why you think that the UK would be better able to negotiate a bilateral treaty on its own?
P.S. Those sort of things take a long time to negotiate.:)0 -
I have heard it suggested that we wouldn't have access or trade would cease (with a cost of 3 million jobs) which is clearly scaremongering. I don't think any of us know whether the UK would be better off out or not, or on what terms we'd access the single market which does make it a tricky decision.
It’s far less risky for a country to negotiate free trade with one developed country than 28, hence why the EU deals with Canada and the US are taking so long and may not go through. Those terms for the 28 may not also suit the UK.Indeed it could. Are there any particular reasons why you think that the UK would be better able to negotiate a bilateral treaty on its own?
P.S. Those sort of things take a long time to negotiate.
As I understand we’d have 2 years to negotiate our terms as per EU rules.[FONT="]
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