Brexit

RJP33

That's in everyone's interests if we vote out. The only issue will be whether there's a spite / backlash from some of the countries when our contribution isn't there, or is greatly diminished.

Generali

Thrugelmir wrote: »

If Turkey joins the EU. That's another potential 76 million people with the ability to move. At what point will ordinary people simply just say enough?

There's little likelihood of the migration from North Africa ceasing either.

Did North Africa join the EU or does that simply make my point that border control is a myth?

Thrugelmir

RJP33 wrote: »

The only issue will be whether there's a spite / backlash from some of the countries when our contribution isn't there, or is greatly diminished.

The EU has it's own issues to address as well. The UK isn't the only matter on the agenda. Certainly not the most pressing.

chewmylegoff

Generali wrote: »

Did North Africa join the EU or does that simply make my point that border control is a myth?

The number of illegal immigrants who manage to make it into the UK from countries outside of the EU is a pretty good indicator that leaving the EU will not make much difference to desperate people who are determined to enter the country. We can't even stop them coming through the tunnel in the back of lorries despite the fact that everyone knows it is happening.

It seems to me that unless a country is prepared to ruthlessly deport all illegal immigrants immediately (which we are very clearly not prepared to do as a nation) there is little we can do to stop people getting in.

On the other hand it is very easy to stop law abiding skilled workers coming, but that isnt a particularly sensible thing to do and the 'economic migrants' will continue to arrive regardless.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

RJP33 wrote: »

Companies were and are based here regardless of the EU because it’s a rich country in which to do business, in the same way the US, Canada, Australia etc are.

Yes, for some companies that is true.

But in addition to that, other companies are based here or have facilities here only because we are part of the single market and when they made the decision to base an entity within the single market for the benefits that gives them, they chose Britain.

Those are the businesses we are at risk of losing.

If we are no longer within the single market, then an entity that has been situated within the single market for business reasons will have to move to another country that is, yes you guessed it, within the single market.

This really isn't difficult to understand....

There’s no reason why the UK would not have access to the single market for trade if we were to leave the EU,

Again, you seem to completely fail to understand the difference between being within the single market, and having the ability to trade with the single market.

The differences are really, very, significant.

And that’s not covering the fact that the UK would be able to sign its own free trade deals again elsewhere in the world to further boost business.

Most of which we are highly unlikely to get on better terms than a deal with the EU.

If you are a country negotiating a trade deal, which is more valuable for you to have access to, an economy with 60 million people or an economy with 500 million people?

Hint: It isn't the smaller one.

antrobus

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Hence why the EU will wish to maintain a good relationship with the UK.

I strongly suspect that the EU would wish to maintain a "good relationship" with everybody, including the UK. I'm not convinced that means much of itself.:)

Thrugelmir

antrobus wrote: »

I strongly suspect that the EU would wish to maintain a "good relationship" with everybody, including the UK. I'm not convinced that means much of itself.:)

Hence why there's a huge amount of hot air surrounding the issue. Whatever the outcome people will simply adjust.

Mandelbrot

chewmylegoff wrote: »

It seems to me that unless a country is prepared to ruthlessly deport all illegal immigrants immediately (which we are very clearly not prepared to do as a nation)

Says who?
It is the Government and in particular, the Home Office (through Border Force & 'Immigration Enforcement' :huh:) that lacks ruthlessness (and even competence).
The 'nation' has little say on the matter.

DandelionPatrol

RJP33 wrote: »

Why does it require the free movement of people?

In order to provide a single market in labour. Free movement enables me to work in Gdansk or Barcelona if I want to. If free movement is stopped, I no longer have access to those places to sell my labour and as such there is no longer a single market for labour. Just a multiplicity of national markets.

If free movement is stopped for the UK alone, I can only see thousands of British workers across the single market being sent home. Will these people really take the jobs released by the Romanians, Czechs, Poles etc? Most unlikely. They will just flood the market for professionals and drive down professional pay levels.

RJP33

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Most of which we are highly unlikely to get on better terms than a deal with the EU.

If you are a country negotiating a trade deal, which is more valuable for you to have access to, an economy with 60 million people or an economy with 500 million people?

Actually it’s highly likely the UK would be able to get better terms because it’s a lot less risky to deal with one developed country than 28 and the terms for the 28 may not necessarily suit the UK. This is why the deals with Canada and the US take so long.

Being able to sign our own free trade deals again is a substantial advantage for leaving.

DandelionPatrol wrote: »

If free movement is stopped for the UK alone, I can only see thousands of British workers across the single market being sent home. Will these people really take the jobs released by the Romanians, Czechs, Poles etc? Most unlikely. They will just flood the market for professionals and drive down professional pay levels.

More British people work and live outside the EU than in it, people are more than capable of getting a visa.

There's a lot of scaremongering at the moment, people and the economy will quickly adjust to new opportunities.