Nuisance pub next door

Paul_Baldwin

Hi Olly300, funnily enough Ive just emailed the environmental health department to see if they know what times are deemed reasonable or how I can find out

Debt_Free_Chick

Careful, the pub can involve the Environmental Dept and claim that YOU are the noise nuisance. Given your relationship with them so far, I wouldn't put it past them. Anyway, you don't want this to develop into a full-blown dispute, beyond the smoking shelter.

Paul_Baldwin

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

Careful, the pub can involve the Environmental Dept and claim that YOU are the noise nuisance. Given your relationship with them so far, I wouldn't put it past them. Anyway, you don't want this to develop into a full-blown dispute, beyond the smoking shelter.

Dont worry, although it is tempting. All I can do now is wait and see what happens after they recieve the letter from the planning dept and see what they do.
Meanwhile I'll contact SPAB I think and ask them what process they recommend to remove the masonry paint without damaging the stonework.

Biggles

The pdf from Darlington on smoking shelters is fairly comprehensive.

It does refer to common licence restrictions preventing the use of external drinking areas after 23:00.

It also says that, "All shelters should face inwards to reduce noise".

What it doesn't say (but most of the others did, eg Trafford's, and Darlington's is, for the most part, borrowed from a selection of the others) is that you can't have a smoking shelter where one wall consists of door(s) and/or windows giving access to the premises. Strikes me, if it's situated on the pub side, one wall here is going to be mostly door and windows.

I think you should try and get them to say whether it has permission as a smoking shelter and get Planning and Enviromental Health to talk to each other about it.

Paul_Baldwin

Hi Biggles,
as yet planning havent referred to it as a smoking shelter, only as a canopy. I asked them in my last email if they could point me in the direction of my local authoritys guidelines as I havent been able to find one. You are indeed correct that the one wall it is situated against has a door in it, 2 infact.
Ive had a look at a few of those guidelines from different councils. I'm sure I read in one that doors should have closers fitted and it was not acceptable to have non-smoking customers walking through the shelter to access the garden.
This one especially seems to have a lot of info. http://www.rugby.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=1092&pageNumber=2

olly300

Paul_Baldwin wrote: »

I felt like it the other night when the manager told me I shouldnt have bought a house next to a pub. He also sees nothing wrong with them sitting out there till 1.00 AM at the weekends. Highly considerate attitude to have!

If he wants the pub to lose it's license or he wants to lose his job, he is going the right way about it.

There is noise nusiance guidelines in the Licensing Act, if he leaves the garden open to 1am on a weekend and I suggest you talk to the Envirnomental Health team particularly if the noise is keeping you awake.

This is from wakefield council http://www.wakefield.gov.uk/Business/LicensingAndPermits/LicensingAct2003/LicensingAct_PreventNuisance.htm

Careful, the pub can involve the Environmental Dept and claim that YOU are the noise nuisance. Given your relationship with them so far, I wouldn't put it past them. Anyway, you don't want this to develop into a full-blown dispute, beyond the smoking shelter.

I wouldn't suggest you play any loud music as you must have neighbours on the other side and/or across the road. There is no point annoying them as well. You be surprised how noise travels. (Mind you they are likely to blame the pub.)

It is already a dispute. If the landlord didn't want a dispute they would have talked to the Paul Baldwin and the other local residents, and checked he was happy about everything.

Having talked to two pub landlord in pubs I frequent offered which are surrounded by residential properties, it's in the pubs' interest to keep the residents happy as if you keep them happy they:
1. Won't complain if you want to extend your opening hours or have the occassion party.
2. Stop you wasting money submitting planning applications that they will object to
3. Are likely to spend money in your pub and hold their own parties there.

Paul_Baldwin

Cheers Olly for that. The bit about beer chillers is particularly interesting to me. After the refit the chiller is going on and off 24/7 approx every 5 mins. Its an antiquated piece of kit and the fan is noisy, maybe I ought to go the whole hog and see if I can get that sorted too? I will maybe ask if they can alter it first as a goodwill gesture, cant see that it should go on and off all night.
Ive spoken to environ health again and have decided to delay getting sound equipment in until the canopy is reduced in size. I'm sure they would only use this as defence and demand things were re-evalued if things changed.
Apparently my local council has no local standards for shelters and they refer to the LACORS issued government guidance. Ive sent 4 pdf's taken from various local councils to the environ dept (such as Biggles mentioned) and a link to http://www.redbridge.gov.uk/cms/environment__planning/food_safety/smokefree_redbridge/fact_sheets_smokefree/smoking_shelters_fact_sheet.aspx
pointing out that even if the canopy is reduced in size it still covers a door with no closer that allows smoke to directly enter the pub. I also mentioned this in a phone conversation and the fact that you can smell cigar smoke if you are stood at the bar. Surely this cant be right?
Apparently they are entitled to drink out there until 1am

black-saturn

The colder weather will be here soon and you'll find that pubs won't have any customers as smokers won't want to stand outside all evening freezing to death. We went out for a drink at the weekend to a pub which is usually packed but there was only 4 people in there.

What about putting a fan right by the window so it blows the smoke out before it gets in?

Paul_Baldwin

Interesting stuff for me anyway Tells you what you can use to stop noise nuisance and specifically mentions smoke infiltration, even mentions windows and doors!

http://www.cieh.org/library/Knowledge/Public_health/Smoking_in_the_workplace/LACORS_guide_associated_MAR%2007.pdf

Wig

Paul_Baldwin wrote: »

I also mentioned this in a phone conversation and the fact that you can smell cigar smoke if you are stood at the bar. Surely this cant be right?
Apparently they are entitled to drink out there until 1am

Re: above and beer chiller noise

You can ask that the premises licence be re-evaluated due to changing circumstances, saying that this new area for patrons to smoke,drink,shout,until 1am is causing you all sorts of stress.

I was looking at buying a house opposite a nightclub, and thought about this as a way of getting them shut down. because the new smoking laws meant that until 2am there was now a congregation of people outside in the carpark smoking and chatting, whereas before, these people were all inside the club. I decided not to buy the house.