Nuisance pub next door

Paul_Baldwin

Maninthestreet. It is but I dont want to push things too hard as theres a meeting arranged for the 4th September.
Pinkthinks. Thanks for your support As biggles points out its always been like this as people wander past on the way to the garden BUT now it is an area for people to congregate. Its been used as vehicle access for 400+ years and overnight its a seating area
Biggles. I recieved an email off planning and they said they would look into things and get back to me by next week. My first email wasnt a complete list of the problems though so I've asked if they want a meeting or a comprehensive list sent to them. I have also pointed out that I dont think the smoking shelter is legal due to it being substantially enclosed. I have also pointed out to planning twice now that the windows were omitted from the drawings submitted.
Environmental health have also sent me some forms in electronic format
I have also stressed to both council depts that the new tenants in the pub have inherited the problem caused by Punch Taverns shortcomings and that they are not the problem.

Biggles

Some interesting results, Paul, from Googling 'smoking shelter guidelines'.

There are some Councils' PDFs on the first page and the Trafford one in particular, under 'Location considerations', says:-
"Smoking shelters should also be sited so as to ensure, as far as possible, that secondhand smoke will not be likely to infiltrate into smokefree areas of premises and give rise to complaints. Smoking shelters should not be located:-
under or near any openable windows of the same or adjoining property;

under or near any air intake systems of the same or adjoining property;
directly at or in front of the entry and/or exits doors to any premises.

To minimise the risk of secondary smoke infiltrating into smokefree premises, it is recommended that the smoking shelter is sited at least 1.5 metres away from any openable windows, openable doors and air intake systems.

To avoid problems with neighbours and licensing issues please take into account the following advice:

Smoking shelters should be placed away from housing and if possible with some form of insulation (wall, vegetation etc) between customers and residents to help mitigate the noise.

Speak to your neighbours, advise what you plan to do and request their suggestions

Display posters asking for noise to be kept to a minimum in external areas"

NB I recommend keeping your window open at all times for the moment in case of a snap inspection by the Council. ;-)

Gateshead's PDF covers shelters in enclosed yards & courtyards and says there must be a clear gap of 1.5m between the edge of any part of the roof and at least 50% of the walls. In your case, it's only about 25% (the roof, albeit incomplete, which doesn't matter, reaches three walls).

Might be worth checking your council's website for guidelines (if you haven't done, didn't notice anything in prev posts).

Paul_Baldwin

Update.
I've had an email from planning "I believe an enforcement case has been opened due to the canopy not beingconstructed in accordance with the plans." This could be to do with the roof being at a steeper angle than on the plans though. Still no mention of anything else I asked about as yet. The lady from planning I'm dealing with said she is having a meeting with the enforcement officer today and will get back to me ASAP.
Meanwhile I've been taking a few videos of the problem window as evidence, got some shouting, swearing, loud laughter and even an interesting conversation including "niggers and pakkis".
I was also advised to contact my local councillor about the problem as it will be flagged on the computer system they use, this I have done.
Biggles. I did find some info from Darlington Borough Council a while ago which is worded very similiar to the text you have found but as yet no-one from the council has referred to it being one, only a canopy. No reason given for the windows being omitted from the drawings either as yet. Those dimensions do appear to be only guidelines though. My local council doesnt appear to have publshed anything as yet.

Paul.

Biggles

Hi Paul, glad you're still in there fighting.

It's interesting if they only approved it as 'a canopy'. That would mean they had not approved it as a 'smoking shelter' and sounds as though the design hasn't been accepted for that purpose.

It follows that he probably hasn't got permission to use it for smoking from anyone. Which must be good.

Paul_Baldwin

Hi Biggles
, theres been a big delay as the council staff took their summer holidays. I know what your saying about the shelter part of it but am worried that it will still stay even if they cannot use it for smoking. People are far less likely to want to sit out their if they cant though. Thankfully the radiant heater bulbs keep blowing and its getting colder so it should be quieter out there tonight

Paul_Baldwin

Another update.
Ive recieved an email about the letter that has been sent out by the enforcement officer. "It has recently been brought to my attention that the formation of a canopy constructed at the above address has not been erected in accordance with the approved plans.
The current canopy is unlikely to be acceptable. I therefore suggest you remedy the situation as soon as possible and implement the permission as approved.

A site visit will be carried out at the beginning of October to ensure that the canopy has been erected according to the approved scheme. If you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact me on the number above."
Ive emailed back to ask them to clarify what its failed on as this doesnt tell me much, also asked again why the windows were omitted from the drawings as I feel they would have had an impact on the planning decision. As yet they havent answered any of the questions I asked initially and havent requested the full list of issues I volunteered either

Paul_Baldwin

Apparently it should measure 4.5m in width x3.5m in depth x 2.7m in height. It was meant to stretch halfway across the yard and be situated on the pub side. Theyve been given to the start of October to put it right.
It got the go ahead as they deemed that there was already a potential nuisance problem . They also concurred that there would be an increase in customers using this area once the smoking ban was introduced. The area is proposed as an occasional area for customers to smoke.
Occasional! Makes me wonder what they've been taking? Before the area was barely used at all as it was not a pleasant place to sit. They concluded the potential nuisance problem existed and that it would not result in any greater loss sufficient to warrant refusing the proposal. :rolleyes::mad:
[FONT=&quot]Surely there is a difference to the possibility of the problem existing than actually actively creating it? [/FONT]

RabbitMad

I think its time to start playing loud clasical music out of your windows.

olly300

Paul_Baldwin wrote: »

greater loss sufficient to warrant refusing the proposal. :rolleyes::mad:
[FONT=&quot]Surely there is a difference to the possibility of the problem existing than actually actively creating it? [/FONT]

Apart from the smoke nusiance is there a noise nusiance?

If so I would google for the envirnomental health department of your local council, read their webpages or contact them and see what they state about noise nusiance from licensed premises. Also find out how you complain as sometime you have to keep a detailed log.

Most of the pubs I go into that are in residental areas have to lock their smoking areas between 9pm-11pm due the associated noise nusiance that goes with it.

Paul_Baldwin

RabbitMad wrote: »

I think its time to start playing loud clasical music out of your windows.

Lol. My stereos up to it believe me Bit lacking in classical though, was thinking more Rage Against the Machine or the Prodigy.
I felt like it the other night when the manager told me I shouldnt have bought a house next to a pub. He also sees nothing wrong with them sitting out there till 1.00 AM at the weekends. Highly considerate attitude to have!