Marriage Before Babies or Vice Versa?

fairy_lights

I don't have plans to have kids for a fair few years yet but OH and I are thinking about getting married so we can be each others next of kin. (Incidentally, does anyone know if there is any other way to become someone's next of kin, or is marriage the only way?)
If we do get married neither of us will change our names, and if we have kids they will have my name, or possibly both our names doubled barrelled, so as a family we wouldn't all have the same names regardless.
I do think It's better to be in a stable relationship and properly committed to each other before deciding to have kids, but I don't think marriage is the only way to be committed. I know people who have got married on a whim and split after a few months so it's clearly not that much of a commitment to some people anyway!

catkins

I don't have children by choice but if I had wanted them I would definitely have wanted to have been married first.


I know a few couples who have children and say "they want to get married" and yet years on they haven't. Some of them say it's because they can't afford it (as others have said a wedding costs as much or as little as you want it to) but in a couple of cases it is the woman who wants to be married and the man doesn't really care. I feel that some of the men said they would get married after having children but probably didn't really mean it.

AmyTurtle

Money_maker wrote: »

This is what I feel, therefore I think the marriage should come first. It's too easy to have children a short way into the relationship, almost before the relationship is properly established. Next thing you know, there are several children with different fathers. Complicated relationship and family connections. If you're not ready to commit to a lifelong relationship with one person then hold fire on the children for just a little while. Just to make sure.

My dad has 7 children, and had been married 3 times.
My mum has 3 children, and has been married 6 times.
My stepmum has 5 children, and has been married 3 times.
My stepdad has 3 children, and has been married twice.
Every single one of these children was born within a marriage. So I have one brother, 5 half siblings, and at the moment, 5 step siblings although this has changed over the years.

Somewhat disproves your theory. Marriage doesn't make for a properly established relationship. I've been with my partner for 5 years, longer than my dad was with his first wife, and he had 3 children with her. I like to think that while unmarried, I've got a more responsible attitude to bringing children into the world

jp1964

I think its great to have the choice to be honest, years ago it simply was not the done thing at all. I wouldn't have any problem with anyone not wanting to get married but to have children, you can be just as committed to your relationship and family without being married, equally you can be totally uncommitted being married, which is clearly illustrated by the divorce rate these days, and the number of posts you read about marital infidelity on here and elsewhere.

We had our eldest daughter almost two years before we got married, the love was there, and still is 28 years on, being married is lovely, but it didn't make us more committed to our relationship, we just decided that it would be nice to get married, and obviously legally it helps, but that was not a consideration when we decided to get married.

Apart from the legal side, there is not that much these days that means marriage is a lot better than simply living together, you can even change your name quite easily if you so choose.

I do agree with others that the whole 'massive wedding as a huge production' industry means that often people say they cannot afford a wedding, but that said, it does still cost money to get married, even in the simplest way, and most people would want to mark the occasion in some way, some special clothes and perhaps a celebration meal with a few family and friends is not free!

I pointed this out to my mother when she was complaining that our eldest daughter was not married yet, despite being engaged for several years, she soon shut up when I suggested that perhaps she would prefer them to go to the nearest registry office and get married but no one in the family including her would be invited as that is all they could afford to do right now!

It simply is not a priority for them at the moment, and it is down to them to decide what is right, if they decided to have kids before marriage, fine by me.

Mojisola

lulu_92 wrote: »

Can you explain how? I'm not too savvy about marriage

When two separate individuals live together, if an asset is in one person's name, it belongs to them.

If you are in a marriage (that lasts more than a couple of years), the assets owned by the two people are considered assets of the marriage and both spouses have rights if they break up.

lulu_92 wrote: »

It is an awfully divisive subject. Even my sister and I fall out about this every now and again

I don't think it's anyone else's business how another person manages marriage, children, living together, owning property or whatever - society is relaxed enough for us to make our own decisions. I've done it one way but I don't think my way is right for everyone else.

lulu_92

Mojisola wrote: »

When two separate individuals live together, if an asset is in one person's name, it belongs to them.

If you are in a marriage (that lasts more than a couple of years), the assets owned by the two people are considered assets of the marriage and both spouses have rights if they break up.

But the thing is, I don't want to have ownership of this house. If anything happens to our relationship at the moment he keeps the house and I take the savings (which is roughly the same as the equity in the house). I would have rights legally, but morally I could not do that to him. He worked so hard to have that house and I thank him as it's put us in a great position to start a family. I may think differently when I have kids but I plan to do as my mum did when she divorced and not make it a big fight about money. I would survive somehow.

I don't think it's anyone else's business how another person manages marriage, children, living together, owning property or whatever - society is relaxed enough for us to make our own decisions. I've done it one way but I don't think my way is right for everyone else.

I've written a comment in red.

I agree with you, it's not anyone's business how people do things. It is interesting to read people's reasoning for why they chose to do things one way or another but yes, there isn't a one size fits all way to do things anymore.

I'm so glad that I have the freedom to have a child with the man I love and not be taken to a mother and baby home and put the child up for adoption because I wasn't married.

Mojisola

Quote from lulu -But the thing is, I don't want to have ownership of this house. If anything happens to our relationship at the moment he keeps the house and I take the savings (which is roughly the same as the equity in the house). I would have rights legally, but morally I could not do that to him. He worked so hard to have that house and I thank him as it's put us in a great position to start a family. I may think differently when I have kids but I plan to do as my mum did when she divorced and not make it a big fight about money. I would survive somehow.

So you are in exactly the same position you would be if you were married.

lulu_92

Mojisola wrote: »

Quote from lulu -But the thing is, I don't want to have ownership of this house. If anything happens to our relationship at the moment he keeps the house and I take the savings (which is roughly the same as the equity in the house). I would have rights legally, but morally I could not do that to him. He worked so hard to have that house and I thank him as it's put us in a great position to start a family. I may think differently when I have kids but I plan to do as my mum did when she divorced and not make it a big fight about money. I would survive somehow.

So you are in exactly the same position you would be if you were married.

Yeah, so why do I need to be married? The money in our savings comes out of my wages, the mortgage is paid with OH's wages.

Don't get me wrong. I do want to get married at some point but, and although this isn't very MSE, we would want to mark it in a big way. We know the venue and we both have one thing that we wouldn't budge on financially. We know how much we want to spend but I don't think either of us could truly enjoy the day as we'd be thinking the money could have bumped our deposit up or done something else that would benefit us for longer than a day. Yes marriage lasts until divorce but a wedding is one day, and it is something we both want. We could nip to the town hall around the corner from our house and get the legalities out of the way but it's not how I'd like to do it.

When my mum married my step-dad 7 years ago it was amazing to be part of that day and I think my mum was so happy to be able to have us there. I think it would be so nice to get married with my kids there in a day full of love and celebration.

Transformers

Personally I think that a lot of our social problems are related to the devalued status of marriage.

Decades ago it was the norm to get married first. To have children out of wedlock was shameful. This discouraged people from rushing into having children too soon in a relationship.

Now, it's not uncommon for people to get intentionally pregnant only months into a relationship. Sorry, but how can you REALLY know that you have met your 'life partner' and father/mother to your children in that short space of time?

I'm sad that society is moving away from marriage - I genuinely believe that this has sparked the views that relationships don't have to be permanent to have children.

Too many people now put themselves first instead of thinking of their children.

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

Mojisola

lulu_92 wrote: »

Yeah, so why do I need to be married? The money in our savings comes out of my wages, the mortgage is paid with OH's wages.

There are legal protections and benefits available for married couples which can't be claimed by unmarried couples/parents.

An unmarried partner whose family home is owned by their partner could be out on the street in a moment if their partner wanted to break up with them. As you have money in your name, your position wouldn't be as difficult as for many who don't have savings.