Speed Cameras: what offence would this be?

Cornucopia

Car_54 wrote: »

Not difficult at all. Police go to the scene, witness cars speeding past, and give evidence to that effect under oath.

The official guidance says that the wheels of justice need to have started turning in order for the course of justice to be perverted. It's difficult to see how that would work in this scenario.

In particular, I think the not unreasonable question would be asked as to why they need a speed camera when there are Police officers there ready to observe offences.

The fundamental question is whether PCoJ applies to a specific offence, or just generally. I'm guessing the former.

Maybe, if there was other CCTV in the area, they could come up with a specific sample speeding offence that they were unable to prosecute because of the bag over the camera.

Johnmcl7

Muscle750 wrote: »

I've always wondered what would happen if when caught you implied that your car had been cloned ie someone had copied your number plate and had secured it to a similar same colour vehicle as yours and if this has actually happened which I'm sure it has how much did it take convincing the authorities that it wasn't you. if you were caught within 10 miles of home I think you would have a issue but if you were caught in saŷ Penzance and you lived in Yorkshire etc would you Have such a big problem convincing and also obviously if the photographic eveidence didn't show the driver

The first step is usually you'll be asked to supply pictures of your vehicle which will then be compared to the vehicle that was captured - even if it's the same model of car and the same colour there's still likely to be small differences in the spec and small cosmetic differences such as a different name on the number plate or dealer sticker. The distance of the offence from the registered location of the vehicle as you say will also make a difference, in many cases it's unlikely a cloned car would be near the original. Quite a few times when people have asked for advice with a suspected cloned plate on Pepipoo, it's simply been a number plate misread.

There was a case fairly recently where someone claimed the car had been cloned and when asked to supply pictures of their car they made some changes to it to try and make it look like the car that had been captured was a different cloned one. However he was found out and ended up being convicted of perverting the course of justice.

John

EssexExile

When I used to be involved with this sort of thing we had a few who claimed it was a cloned car that was spotted. The obvious question was "How do you know if you weren't there?"

Spicy_McHaggis

EssexExile wrote: »

When I used to be involved with this sort of thing we had a few who claimed it was a cloned car that was spotted. The obvious question was "How do you know if you weren't there?"

I do hope that's a joke with your understanding of the RTA and your only involvement in that sort of thing was as a temporary postman delivering nips.

EssexExile

Hello Spicy, nice to chat again. How on earth would the defendant know why or how the authorities had a picture of a car they thought was his at a place he claimed he wasn't at?

Spicy_McHaggis

EssexExile wrote: »

Hello Spicy, nice to chat again. How on earth would the defendant know why or how the authorities had a picture of a car they thought was his at a place he claimed he wasn't at?

Because they name the place and the time they are alleged to be there on the nip? They also tell them the allegation is supported by photographic evidence.

If they weren't there or have never been there, how can it be a photo of them or their vehicle?

EssexExile

Spicy_McHaggis wrote: »

Because they name the place and the time they are alleged to be there on the nip? They also tell them the allegation is supported by photographic evidence.

If they weren't there or have never been there, how can it be a photo of them or their vehicle?

Mis-read number plate? Mis-transcribed somewhere in the process?
I had a NIP many years ago from somewhere I hadn't been. When I queried it they sent the photo & it was a different model & they had just mis-read one digit. Luckily that was in Essex, up here in Staffordshire they refuse to send out the photo unless they think there is something in it which may help you identify the driver. My point was that in the absence of a photo I wouldn't assume it was a clone.

Car_54

EssexExile wrote: »

Mis-read number plate? Mis-transcribed somewhere in the process?
I had a NIP many years ago from somewhere I hadn't been. When I queried it they sent the photo & it was a different model & they had just mis-read one digit. Luckily that was in Essex, up here in Staffordshire they refuse to send out the photo unless they think there is something in it which may help you identify the driver. My point was that in the absence of a photo I wouldn't assume it was a clone.

So what would you assume?

brat

Car_54 wrote: »

So what would you assume?

A misread.

It is really not that common to have two vehicles on the road bearing the same reg.

Prothet_of_Doom

Muscle750 wrote: »

I've always wondered what would happen if when caught you implied that your car had been cloned ie someone had copied your number plate and had secured it to a similar same colour vehicle as yours and if this has actually happened which I'm sure it has how much did it take convincing the authorities that it wasn't you. if you were caught within 10 miles of home I think you would have a issue but if you were caught in saŷ Penzance and you lived in Yorkshire etc would you Have such a big problem convincing and also obviously if the photographic eveidence didn't show the driver

Well, feel free to lie in court, and if proved wrong, get a lot more than the 3 points and £60 fine you would have got.


For this LIE to work you'd need a very standard common car with no stickers, rust, dents etc, you'd need to be sure that any CCTV camera you passed that day, didn't capture your image, that you hadn't left a trial of electronic evidence such as credit card use in a petrol station with a CCTV camera about 1 mile from your house, when you say you were in Yorkshire. You'd have to be sure that your alibi was VERY water tight.


I say this because my niece, was accused of being involved in an accident about 1 mile from her home, and the police went to great lengths to try and prove it was her. Despite the fact that her car was in a garage being welded at the time, and she was in college being witnessed by other student and lecturers, some 15 miles away, and the fact that the person who gave a false name and address was male, about 10 inches taller and 5 stone heavier than her. I didn't help that the garage also set fire to her car, which was written off in the workshop about 1 hour after the alleged accident.


I imagine that when you turn up in court with false evidence, and your witnesses are asked to swear on oath, that you'll wish you'd taken the moral high ground and taken it on the chin.