Speed Cameras: what offence would this be?

Joe_Horner

All roads are "national speed limit" except for restricted roads (those with the required street lighting) which are 30mph, or ones that are notified by posted limits backed by a Traffic Regulation Order.

That's why:

You don't need repeater signs in most 30 limits, you do need repeater signs in all 40 and 50 limits, and you don't need repeater signs on NSL roads except where they have lighting that would otherwise make them restricted.

NSL is currently 60 mph for cars on single carriageway and 70 for cars on dual carriageway - which may be a single lane in each direction as long as there's a physical separation between opposing traffic flows. NSL speed for other vehicles may vary, but posted limits apply to all traffic.

The one exception to this is a very few dual carriageways with special rules (such as part of the A55 east of Conwy - apparently there are others somewhere) which have special rules attached - basically motorway regs on a non-motorway road - and don't fall into any of the basic definitions of motorway, road or restricted road. They have a 70mph posted limit, with repeaters, because otherwise no limit would apply.

That leaves the one curiosity that I haven't managed to get a definitive answer to (yet):

On those few roads with posted 70mph limit, does that also apply to lorries, trailers etc? In principle it should, just as any other posted limit does, but I'm not about to risk points by putting it to the test

brat

Safety camera vans can park anywhere that a police vehicle can park.

Swipe

brat wrote: »

Safety camera vans can park anywhere that a police vehicle can park.

Indeed, they'll try to set up anywhere. I've even seen them parked on the end of private driveways.

brat

Joe_Horner wrote: »

That leaves the one curiosity that I haven't managed to get a definitive answer to (yet):

On those few roads with posted 70mph limit, does that also apply to lorries, trailers etc? In principle it should, just as any other posted limit does, but I'm not about to risk points by putting it to the test

Schedule 6 of the 84 RTRA gives the speed limits for certain classes of vehicles

Those are the max speeds applicable to those vehicles in any given circumstance, unless a lower speed is applied to the road.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/schedule/6

Car_54

matttye wrote: »

I agree it would be difficult to prove anyone sped past it without the speed camera's evidence to assist.

Not difficult at all. Police go to the scene, witness cars speeding past, and give evidence to that effect under oath.

Joe_Horner

brat wrote: »

Schedule 6 of the 84 RTRA gives the speed limits for certain classes of vehicles

Those are the max speeds applicable to those vehicles in any given circumstance, unless a lower speed is applied to the road.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/schedule/6

Agreed, but that doesn't automatically cover "special roads" like that stretch of the A55. It's "almost motorway" - enough that it doesn't fall under the column for "dual carriageway not being a motorway" but not "motorway enough" to fall under the column for motorway.

Which is why they need to actually post the 70 limit rather than just using NSL signs. If that table applied then no signage would be needed because it would just be a "dual carriageway not being a motorway".

As a Special Road (non-motorway) its limit is set by a TRO (which explicitly over-ride the general limits) and, as a rule, TRO limits apply to all traffic on that road.

Just had a quick Google and apparently other stretches are parts of the A1 and A720 near Edinburgh.

matttye

Car_54 wrote: »

Not difficult at all. Police go to the scene, witness cars speeding past, and give evidence to that effect under oath.

Yes I was talking about after the event.

brat

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Agreed, but that doesn't automatically cover "special roads" like that stretch of the A55. It's "almost motorway" - enough that it doesn't fall under the column for "dual carriageway not being a motorway" but not "motorway enough" to fall under the column for motorway.

Which is why they need to actually post the 70 limit rather than just using NSL signs. If that table applied then no signage would be needed because it would just be a "dual carriageway not being a motorway".

As a Special Road (non-motorway) its limit is set by a TRO (which explicitly over-ride the general limits) and, as a rule, TRO limits apply to all traffic on that road.

Just had a quick Google and apparently other stretches are parts of the A1 and A720 near Edinburgh.

I have no practical need to know this professionally, on the basis that we don't patrol any special roads, but...

If a road is marked like a motorway, looks like a motorway and has a marked 70mph limit, the speed limit for special classes of vehicles will for practical purposes be as for motorway. Similarly if it's a dual or a single carriageway.
But I don't think you could argue for 70 for all vehicles on these roads, because if they're not motorways, dual carriageways or restricted roads, they must be "other roads" which is catered for in the schedule.

Joe_Horner

Agreed that for practical purposes it makes very little difference - especially seeing as most restricted speed vehicles are limited nowadays, so even if the "extra" 10mph was allowed it wouldn't be available to them!

But they can't be "other roads" (or "general purpose" roads) because those imply a general right of way - hence the creation of "Special roads" historically (in the 1930s iirc) to allow for restriction of certain traffic (mainly pedestrians and horse carts) on roads intended for those newfangled motor cars. They also can't be classified as "other roads" because that would impose a "national" 60mph limit for normal cars, yet the posted limit is 70!

Since these special roads carry restrictions - which is why they're designated special roads in the first place - they can't fall under any definition of "other" (or, by default, "general purpose") roads.

Thanks to speed limiters, about the only way I can see this being tested would be with a car towing a caravan or trailer but I've never known anyone to be pulled for doing 70 with one in suitable conditions so it's probably an academic point anyway

Car_54

matttye wrote: »

Yes I was talking about after the event.

I'd suggest that if you put a bag over the camera the intention is clearly to prevent its use for some (undefined) time to come.

So if the bag is put on at midnight, and the officers spot this at 0800 the next morning and see cars speeding past , the conclusion must be that the bringing of those 0800 offenders to justice has been hampered by the miscreant's action eight hours earlier.