Speed Cameras: what offence would this be?

Cornucopia

JustinR1979 wrote: »

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

Not sure what your point is.

I'm not talking about what speed limits are possible, I'm talking about how to identify the limit on any given road, if you've missed or forgotten the relevant terminal signs.

The North Yorkshire Police quote agrees with what I thought was the case.

JustinR1979

Cornucopia wrote: »

Not sure what your point is.

I'm not talking about what speed limits are possible, I'm talking about how to identify the limit on any given road, if you've missed or forgotten the relevant terminal signs.

The North Yorkshire Police quote agrees with what I thought was the case.

Look in side roads for change of limit, look for repeater signs, look for street lighting; plenty of ways.
Not sure what your point is.

Cornucopia

Spicy_McHaggis wrote: »

Come on cut him some slack.

It's not him that's the issue. It's the ineffectiveness of his "speed awareness" course, as a key part of an overall Government attitude to road safety and speeding that doesn't make sense.

I admit to being close to being absolutely opposed to speed cameras on principle. I do not think it is healthy to have a society in which there is automated and/or mass policing such that it is the norm to be expected to routinely modify one's otherwise safe and normal behaviour to avoid falling foul of some arbitrary rule.

I can see a marginal justification for automated enforcement of speed at the extreme. I would have speed cameras solely to target nuisance speeders ie. those who travel in excess of 26mph above the limit, and who, when caught would be in line for a ban.

I don't accept that 71mph is intrinsically more dangerous than 70mph, and I think that any form of policing that is based on that principle is unacceptable.

Going back to the Speed "Awareness" courses, I've heard about the kind of black propaganda they use before, and I think it's unacceptable. What is wrong with facing up to the truth which is that the relationship between speed and safety is very complex, and that the enforcement regime is more about what is possible and what is lucrative rather than what is safe?

As for blackspots - they need re-engineering, not speed cameras.

Cornucopia

JustinR1979 wrote: »

Look in side roads for change of limit, look for repeater signs, look for street lighting; plenty of ways.
Not sure what your point is.

Two points:

1) There is a definitive way to recognise the limits of roads without seeing the terminal signs. (And therefore "I didn't see the terminal sign" is not an excuse).

2) Your post #25 about "Single and dual carriageways are 30 unless stated otherwise" is factually incorrect. Though I'm not sure what you mean by "unless stated otherwise", because it is always stated.

JustinR1979

What do you mean by point 2?
Around town centres etc are single and dual carriageways, they are 30 unless stated otherwise.

Cornucopia

Motorways are 70 unless stated otherwise. Still not sure what your point is.

But, hey, that happens...

JustinR1979

Well that depends on the vehicle you're driving....

Cornucopia

Yes. I said that before.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

I don't disagree with all speed camera's, Its I disagree with mobile speed camera's being park in locations that have not seen many accidents and zero fatal accidents or no accidents at all and parked in locations that are would other get us motorists a fine for doing so.


Its all well and good that they obtain permission from the local authority to operate in the area amd gain permission to park as and where they deem fit without comebacks but a civilian run safety camera vans shouldn't have that exclusive right in my opinion, I cant contact the local authority to park in police patrol only bay on dual carriage way or on a motorway or double yellows, overpass on curbs or on curbs in general or in bus stops or in emergency only layby's or mount curbs, or chevrons so why should a civilian operating a speed van be granted that exclusive right to park as and where they deem fit?


such as here on the foot path on bridge over the A470 south wales.


https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.627486,-3.320492,3a,63.2y,251.98h,66.2t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1shKrtXyGwm7mQlFJIA3W7yw!2e0!6m1!1e1


Or here on the A470 emergency only layby.


https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.631306,-3.322812,3a,75y,346.94h,68t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1snJIOFlQkBpfyfjTVU8ya9A!2e0!6m1!1e1
the layby is now colored and clearly marked emergency only layby in 2013 but it doesn't stop the SCP vans parking in them.


and here on the police patrol vehicle only grass verge


https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.618172,-3.22005,3a,48.6y,83.26h,86.34t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sW0dp-AVb9zFFn7TZIEbtVQ!2e0


Another site is to park on over the curb and chevrons on this zebra crossing and have the camera pointed in the direction of the petrol station.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.68025,-3.371643,3a,75y,298.89h,60.04t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sS7yOAJw3H1UnYaeQpJfJgQ!2e0


Another location is the bus stop facing down the road and the grass verge facing up the road.


https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.666696,-3.458034,3a,75y,269.41h,56.69t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s_JLuf1Uf4itvFJmvXvMw-A!2e0


in the bus stop here facing down the road toward the industrial estate is another popular parking spot for SCP van
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.662757,-3.229294,3a,75y,195.9h,64.71t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1svXk1cjkJNtqQwVFGT1QLeg!2e0


another bus stop they favor


https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.664574,-3.25255,3a,75y,153.81h,48.71t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1siyvGpn6L1g0BUE1W2hVNSQ!2e0


another favored bus stop where the limit goes from 60 to 40.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.647679,-3.295001,3a,75y,237.33h,69.2t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s6kSQB8VS8NDiaBU-GjSAAg!2e0


parks in the bus stop near the village name sign
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.681195,-3.217384,3a,77.7y,142.44h,84.42t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sDYzfYvBVZaXfjO_NpjSlEg!2e0


or in the grass central reservation facing the cars coming round the bend. or coming up the carriageway.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.769712,-3.325671,3a,75y,109.43h,67.4t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1scAMAxYQSRo_Tvboow7qKUg!2e0


or parked here in the escape lane.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.72952,-3.36169,3a,75y,148.44h,61.73t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1saAz64vThcqg2puJ07Rgymg!2e0


parked here in the chevrons by the black bollards.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.676691,-3.182858,3a,75y,222.62h,79.11t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sH-REQn-qXvED87zdy0_AcQ!2e0


Parked on the curb on the bridge over looking the carriage way
blocking the footpath.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.626565,-3.410289,3a,75y,137.21h,72.91t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sxQSEfiuRtABJ2NhMrkBXxg!2e0


or here on the curb above the M4 they also use the police only laybys on this stretch to llantrisant.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.546234,-3.19001,3a,75y,277.45h,51.76t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sBRp5fCikrflCYZzYY_5lcQ!2e0


If I can get a fine for obstructing a footpath, or parking in a double yellow or on a chevron in urban clearways then it should be a rule for all.

matttye

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Difficult to prove if they couldn't prove that someone had sped past the camera while it was covered - you can't pervert the course of justice if no offence was committed to pervert it in relation to.

Yes, would be an attempt if no one sped past it but how likely is that

I agree it would be difficult to prove anyone sped past it without the speed camera's evidence to assist.

Cornucopia wrote: »

Are you thinking that it would count as disposing of evidence? I think that's a bit of a stretch.

Nope, the law is that anyone who commits acts that tend to pervert the course of justice and that are intended to pervert the course of justice commits an offence.

It's not always in relation to disposal of evidence etc. Lying to the police in an interview under caution would be PCOJ but unlikely to be charged as such because it happens so often.

One example where lies told in interview might lead to a PCOJ charge is if the lies lead to the arrest of an innocent person.

brat wrote: »

PCJ would never be considered.

Most Camera Partnerships have some police link in the prosecution process, so 'obstruction' would be a possibility, albeit a very tenuous one which probably wouldn't be used.

If caught in the act you would be very likely to be arrested on suspicion of attempting to cause criminal damage.

He didn't ask what would be considered he asked what offence had been committed.

My local police force always charge affrays as section 4s. Doesn't mean they're not affrays. I had a client who head butted three people in town during the early hours of New Years day and they charged that as a section 4. :eek:

Two reasons for under charging are so as not to bog down the crown court and to secure a guilty plea as quickly as possible. Someone is much more likely to plead guilty to section 4 at the mags than if they were facing an affray at the crown court, given that any legal rep is going to say it's well worth considering pleading guilty before they up it to an affray.