Software annual fee not mentioned until after sale

ThumbRemote

timbstoke wrote: »

They haven't said, but they have clearly become aware of them. The problem OP has is that the company has their money. Sure, they can cancel the contract and not pay after the first year, but I'm guessing they want a refund. For which they would need to at least threaten and very possibly follow through with, court action. At which point the contract will be produced, and OP's claims that they just handed over their money without sight of it will go against them given that they are a business.

It doesn't matter what contract the retailer produces, unless they can also show it's been agreed to by the OP. From what OP has said it doesn't sound like the retailer can, so OP would win in court.

lucy03

ThumbRemote wrote: »

It doesn't matter what contract the retailer produces, unless they can also show it's been agreed to by the OP. From what OP has said it doesn't sound like the retailer can, so OP would win in court.

This is still a problem for the OP if the company says that the terms were mentioned on the phone as there's no requirement for a contract to be in writing. The OP is IMO in a difficult position going to court and saying that they're purchased something expensive over the phone and haven't checked the company's web-site where the full terms and conditions are. On balance of probabilities that is an unusual purchasing decision for a business.

darrenlittlewood

daytona0 wrote: »

I think you are missing the points.

1. Rights are limited if you act in the course of business, and you are not strictly considered a "consumer". People on this forum are generally not geared towards "business rights" advice so you'll probably not get as much help as you want. Better to approach an independent body to see what they say

2. The information you have been given already, even the criticism, is perfectly relevant

3. All I can add to this to maybe ask for a transcript of your phone call with the company. This will be a nice little bit of evidence to support your case. Otherwise you may end up in a "your word against theirs" situation - and with them having T's and C's on their website outlining such a cost then you're pretty much bummed.

4. As previously said, you should take more care in the future when making large outlays for a new EPOS system

5. You've mentioned a string of small claims cases you've won.... Now this PROBABLY means you are one of two types of people: A fighter or a very unlucky person. To elaborate, a fighter is someone who creates a mess (ie doesn't read terms and conditions) for the pure reason that they want to fight the company (as opposed to ensuring that their business prospers with the new EPOS system). Not many people people engage with small claims court multiple times so you are probably a slight anomaly in that respect

Some good points thankyou...

as for the small claims I won, clearly the defendant broke the law or the court would of not of found in my favour...

No luck or bad luck was involved, my bank over charged me unlawfully.

Vodafone charged me for an item I had returned and legally cancelled the contract. Same story for BT.

Standing up for what is right and legal is the basis of our legal system.

Lastly my character or personality is not the point here, the question is, and I will repeat it again...

Did the company break the law by concealing or not fully making clear the extra ongoing costs.... Its a simple yes, no or maybe... other opinions etc then people should perhaps start their own threads...

once again thanks for the other points -

darrenlittlewood

timbstoke wrote: »

They haven't said, but they have clearly become aware of them. The problem OP has is that the company has their money. Sure, they can cancel the contract and not pay after the first year, but I'm guessing they want a refund. For which they would need to at least threaten and very possibly follow through with, court action. At which point the contract will be produced, and OP's claims that they just handed over their money without sight of it will go against them given that they are a business.

- I only found out about the renewal fee when I asked for a copy of the service costs.... this was 4 months after the purchase.

My argument is that never in their written correspondence, or verbally, or anywhere on their website or brochures is this mentioned - the only place it is mentioned is in the T&C's... IF every system they sell has this cost it should appear as part of the price on the website, on the invoice, so the customer can make an informed decision.... remember this is a purchase, not a rental or lease....

Maybe I am wrong but in my mind that is what is meant by clear pricing...

unholyangel

darrenlittlewood wrote: »

- I only found out about the renewal fee when I asked for a copy of the service costs.... this was 4 months after the purchase.

My argument is that never in their written correspondence, or verbally, or anywhere on their website or brochures is this mentioned - the only place it is mentioned is in the T&C's... IF every system they sell has this cost it should appear as part of the price on the website, on the invoice, so the customer can make an informed decision.... remember this is a purchase, not a rental or lease....

Maybe I am wrong but in my mind that is what is meant by clear pricing...

But the T&C's are on their website (so not quite sure why you're saying its not mentioned anywhere on their website).

Btw, have you asked them yet? How they provided the T&C's to you when you purchased over the phone?

That is the first thing you should be checking imo - because if they have supplied them and you've overlooked them, all this supposing is for nothing.

darrenlittlewood

unholyangel wrote: »

But the T&C's are on their website (so not quite sure why you're saying its not mentioned anywhere on their website).

Btw, have you asked them yet? How they provided the T&C's to you when you purchased over the phone?

That is the first thing you should be checking imo - because if they have supplied them and you've overlooked them, all this supposing is for nothing.

I said it does not appear anywhere except on the T&C's

They have apologized in writing for not making me aware of the T&Cs... and it 100% does not appear in any sales proposals, invoices or any other correspondence/ documents from them..

cookie365

So, what exactly are the laws about misleading information in b2b contacts?

wealdroam

cookie365 wrote: »

So, what exactly are the laws about misleading information in b2b contacts?

This board is the Consumer Rights board, maybe a business support type of forum might be able to help.

cookie365

wealdroam wrote: »

This board is the Consumer Rights board, maybe a business support type of forum might be able to help.

I was just wondering if anyone happened to know

At least it would make a change for this thread to have some relevant info instead of getting clogged up with useless stuff about consumer legislation!

ThumbRemote

cookie365 wrote: »

So, what exactly are the laws about misleading information in b2b contacts?

In the OPs case, no laws are relevant except basic contract law. There is no case of misleading information. Instead, one party is trying to change the terms of the contract after it has been signed.