Software annual fee not mentioned until after sale

Collabora

darrenlittlewood wrote: »

you are missing the point, it's concealing the costs that is the issue so I could not make an informed decision.

the costs are not concealed they are clear as day in the T&C, you say you did research before ordered, well not much research if you never read the T&C as that should be the first part of any research. When you called to place order they would have assumed you read the T&C, so aware of the annual fee.

Collabora

darrenlittlewood wrote: »

Prohibition of advertising which misleads traders

(3) In determining whether advertising is misleading, account shall be taken of all its features,
(b) the price or manner in which the price is calculated;

PART 2
OFFENCES
Misleading advertising
6. A trader is guilty of an offence if he engages in advertising which is misleading under
regulation 3.

these refer to CONSUMER protection not b2b, again the costs were in the T&C so not hidden/concealed. IT is NOT the companies fault YOU NEVER READ THE T&C

antrobus

darrenlittlewood wrote: »

...HAS ANY LAW BEEN BROKEN IF A COMPANY KNOWINGLY TRIES TO CONCEAL EXTRA COSTS...

Misrepresentation. As in a false statement of fact made by one party to another, which induces the other party to enter the contract.

But to show misrepresentation you would need a 'false statement', as in, a salesman actually stating 'there is no annual charge'. It would be a stretch to argue misrepresentation on the basis that a salesman did not mention something that was in the contract. Particularly when that something was pretty darned close to industry standard practice.

Most business software is sold on the basis that it is £x down and £y per year.

antrobus

Collabora wrote: »

these refer to CONSUMER protection not b2b, again the costs were in the T&C so not hidden/concealed. IT is NOT the companies fault YOU NEVER READ THE T&C

And even in the case of a consumer, you would still have to (a) actually produce an advertisement and (b) show that it was misleading.

"No mention of an annual fee" does not equal an 'advertisement'.

ThumbRemote

darrenlittlewood wrote: »

Ok.... can people on reply to the thread with useful information... This is not a thread for you all to get on your soapboxes.

HAS ANY LAW BEEN BROKEN IF A COMPANY KNOWINGLY TRIES TO CONCEAL EXTRA COSTS...

In consumer cases, yes. The consumer protection from unfair trading regulations apply.

You are a business, so in this case no. However it appears from your description that you were not informed that there were terms and conditions on their website, and therefore you did not agree to them. You cannot agree to T&Cs that you were not even told existed.

As such the simple fact is that those terms and conditions do not apply. Your contract is whatever you agreed to over the phone. The retailer is duty bound to provide the software they sold under the conditions agreed - which is whatever you agreed to on the phone.

lucy03

darrenlittlewood wrote: »

the sales team made it very clear I was purchasing the system outright, at no point was a contract discussed, I was mis-led, why else do they hide the costs...

If I was leasing a machine or renting then of course I would look at the contract, do you look at the terms and conditions when you buy an iphone, do you ring a lawyer when you buy a computer??? of course not

Yes, every contract for phones and computers is read by the legal team at the business I work for. And indeed epos systems as I work for a restaurant company. Every company who supplies us at any level will have their terms and conditions checked.

This isn't posters getting on their soapbox as you mention elsewhere, this is likely what a district judge would say because it's a business contract, ie, "what did the contract or terms & conditions say?".

ThumbRemote

Collabora wrote: »

these refer to CONSUMER protection not b2b, again the costs were in the T&C so not hidden/concealed. IT is NOT the companies fault YOU NEVER READ THE T&C

antrobus wrote: »

And even in the case of a consumer, you would still have to (a) actually produce an advertisement and (b) show that it was misleading.

"No mention of an annual fee" does not equal an 'advertisement'.

I know this is well into hypotheticals, as it's not a consumer contract, but the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations specifically includes 'misleading omissions' on their list of prohibited practices'.

Their product info page states "no hidden costs" and gives a price of £1199 - http://www.eposnow.com/hospitality-epos-system-software-55.html - I would say that this is a misleading omission.

timbstoke

darrenlittlewood wrote: »

HAS ANY LAW BEEN BROKEN IF A COMPANY KNOWINGLY TRIES TO CONCEAL EXTRA COSTS...

If they've actually concealed costs that aren't in the contract , maybe. For a B2B contract that clearly includes the costs, no.

Would you like to rephrase your question once more? Maybe if you keep using different words someone will agree with you.

ThumbRemote

timbstoke wrote: »

If they've actually concealed costs that aren't in the contract , maybe. For a B2B contract that clearly includes the costs, no.

When did OP see and agree to the T&Cs?

timbstoke

ThumbRemote wrote: »

When did OP see and agree to the T&Cs?

They haven't said, but they have clearly become aware of them. The problem OP has is that the company has their money. Sure, they can cancel the contract and not pay after the first year, but I'm guessing they want a refund. For which they would need to at least threaten and very possibly follow through with, court action. At which point the contract will be produced, and OP's claims that they just handed over their money without sight of it will go against them given that they are a business.