Toddler behaviour

j.e.j.

bouicca21 wrote: »

Spot on. Moral principles apart, the practicality is that if corporal punishment is your only tactic, it soon becomes useless because there is nowhere to go except to hit harder and harder.

Really? I think most of us tried not to get a smacked bum when we were growing up, though I suppose there were also some thick( or thick-skinned) kids who were less sensitive and for whom a wallop came to mean very little.

I think (hope) that most advocates of corporal punishment on this thread are talking about it as an occasional tool and they are not talking about actually hurting children. But there are people who would use the same arguments to inflict real pain, serious bruising and broken skin. There are also people who would use those arguments to justify hitting children too young to understand the connection between 'wrongdoing' and chastisement. I still shudder at memories of a young mum who regularly slapped her very small baby (just a few months old) for being 'naughty' and just could not understand why it didn't work.

There are already laws in place to protect children from genuine violence or abuse.

thorsoak

I've been thinking back to our parenting style in the late 60s/70s - have to check if I've left anything out with offspring but I remember administering one slap across the back of the legs to DS1 (aged 4) when he pushed DD (aged 18months) downstairs, after having been already told not to push her down. It was bath time, and I'd just finished filling the bath - which is why they were both on the landing. Fortunately DD was okay - and DS remembers to this day - he wanted to see what would happen!

DS3 was smacked once - again on the back of the leg - by OH - when he attempted to throw climb a ladder onto the roof - a ladder left by the builders. DS3 was 6 at the time.

These are the only occasions that I remember either of us using physical punishment on any of the four. We talked to them, talked AT them, they learned what was expected of them, explained why things were dangerous - and at times, yes, I shouted at them. My OH didn't shout - they knew there was "trouble" if he raised his eyebrows!

As they grew older, privileges were withdrawn for bad behaviour - tv withdrawn, pocket money stopped - no riding - but really, on the whole, they were pretty good kids - and between them, they too are bringing up seven pretty good kids - ranging in age from 17 to 4 - in a similar way.

Me? I was brought up in a loving family - but in the 40s/50s, it was "normal" to get my father's belt across my hand if I'd been cheeky. :-( In later years, he admitted how wrong that was.

FBaby

notanewuser, do you actually ever say no and mean it to your child or do you intend to negotiate everything with them, assiuming you will always come to a compromise that suits both?

If so, I do wish you good luck because that's exactly what my mum did with my sister and that resulted in her really struggling when she faced the real world. She was fine at school because she was an excellent pupil and every teacher loved her, so again, she was never told no. She did have a few issues with friends and sure enough, those who did agree to be friends with her with submissive kids who were happy to go along with what my sister wanted.

She had a massive shock when she started working life though, when she realised that no, she could decide what responsibilities she should take on, and no, the boss wouldn't follow on her ideas because he didn't think they were the most brilliant ones, and when she was told no, that she couldn't pick her working hours. I really do believe that it was the first time in her life that she experienced true frustration and she couldn't cope with it, felt totally disarmed. When my mum tried to explain to her that she wasn't a child any longer and needed to face life, she turned against my mum blaming her and saying that she should be supporting her instead of telling her to deal with her emotions.

Compromise is great, but children do need to learn to cope with some level of emotions, those they will face as adults, fear, frustration, anger, dissapointment. The difference is that as children, we are there as parents to comfort and sooth them over it, and most importantly teach them to control those emotions so that when they face them alone, they will know how to cope with them.

notanewuser

j.e.j. wrote: »

Again, can you really not tell the difference between disciplining a naughty child and abusing a baby??

I do keep asking you, where is the line?

j.e.j.

notanewuser wrote: »

I do keep asking you, where is the line?

There's bound to be a legal definition somewhere online. But failing that, common sense would tell most people, I would have thought.

notanewuser

FBaby wrote: »

notanewuser, do you actually ever say no and mean it to your child or do you intend to negotiate everything with them, assiuming you will always come to a compromise that suits both?

She gets a lot of no, but she gets an explanation why. If she asks for chocolate when I'm making her lunch she gets told no, and why, and when she can have some. Sometimes she gets upset about it, but I'm clear about what can and can't be compromised on and why. Similarly bedtime, wearing a coat, buying things she "really really wants" when out and about, and sitting nicely when at a restaurant/cinema/theatre etc.

She might not like it at the time but I don't give in unless it's something that really doesn't matter. She's starting to understand that we don't have pizza and icecream for breakfast and that she can't always have it her own way.

As an HR consultant having her not just educated but easily employable is one of my key objectives!

bouicca21

Parental chastisement is still a defence to a charge of common assault on a child - i.e. a beating that falls short of causing actual bodily harm.

[FONT=&quot]It's drawing the line that is the problem. It's still murky.[/FONT] I hope we all know that there is a world of difference between the occasional slap and the use of nothing but corporal punishment, but the reality is that lots of people don't know that. [FONT=&quot]As someone else has pointed out, parents need many tools. And the mix of what is effective varies from child to child. [/FONT]

We have at least moved on from A v UK - a[FONT=&quot] European Court of Human Rights case resulting from the acquittal of a stepfather who repeatedly beat his young stepson with a garden cane, leaving bruises which lasted[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]for a week and which had they been inflicted on an adult would have been severe enough for the man to be convicted for assault occasioning actual bodily harm.



[/FONT]

j.e.j.

bouicca21 wrote: »

Parental chastisement is still a defence to a charge of common assault on a child - i.e. a beating that falls short of causing actual bodily harm.

[FONT=&quot]It's drawing the line that is the problem. It's still murky.[/FONT] I hope we all know that there is a world of difference between the occasional slap and the use of nothing but corporal punishment, but the reality is that lots of people don't know that.

I think it is actually stated in law somewhere. You can smack a child, but not just anywhere on the body, I think you can hit them on the legs or the bum. And it mustn't be hard enough to leave a lasting mark. Definitely not a bruise.

geerex

Kayalana99 wrote: »

I've got a 2.5year old who I would of said is quite naughty...but not as bad as described here.

Start with the speech, you keep mentioning this...kids are going to learn at their own rate, I know that their are children that can talk a lot more then my son but he has really come on the last month or two and whilst I couldn't hold a conversation with him he will only say 2 word sentences 'drink please' 'where are you' 'Big hug' at this stage I wouldn't be to worried about that?

Mine is hitting and hang banging are the main things but always pushs the boundaries...he knows he's not aloud to do things but does them as fast as possible before I can stop him and I've removed his dummy from him, toys, been stern with him...but he thinks it's funny (well the dummy upsets him but he doesn't always have this to take away obv)

I would think that the parents should of told him off...but at the same time as in my case he just thinks it's even funnier so I'm really thinking of just removing him from situation and ignoring him so he isn't getting the attention? It's so hard to know what to do. I can't remove him from the room itself because he sees this as a reward...ooo new room!! kind of thing...

He pulled a wire out the sky box one day last week and my OH was pretty stern and told him off and he went 'HELLO!!' full blast.....and yea my OH had to turn around so he couldn't see him laughing...

Let's hope he has someone else to teach him English. You do realise that you can spell check before you post, don't you?

thorsoak

When my dd and her oh moved from Hong Kong to CT, her children were aged 8 and 6 - and had never experienced really "cold" weather and she had difficulties in insisting that they wore appropriate clothing to school - bearing in mind we are talking about CT USA, where there were no school uniform regulations. DGD in particular threw many wobblies about wearing sweaters/tights when the weather was going to get cooler - and after several tantrums and tears, DD bought one of a weather station, - have a look on amazon - technoline weatherstation (if I put a complete link on, it shows all my details!)
...and the little man wears clothes appropriate to the outside temperature! There was no difficulty from thereon, in getting DGD or DGS to wear sufficient clothing!