Should People Have Children If They Cant Afford Them

purpleshoes_2

supermassive wrote: »

I'm sorry you are of that opinion. The facts I talk of are gained from years of being involved with these people. Both as part of the DWP and from living in Grimsby. It's truly a shame that you've, for some reason, taken my comments as some kind of feather-ruffler directed at you or your life. Perhaps you're an anomaly, perhaps you had great parents that happened to not have much money. Perhaps. The fact is that the combination of great parents & little money aren't the standard in working class Britain.



Surely you can see that despite her disposable income (benefits) she is what is classed as 'poor'. This is commonplace in towns with high poverty rates.

Infact, in Grimsby, having a child you can't afford at a young age is considered a career path. "I don't want a job so I'll have a kid so I don't have to get one" and that attitude comes from being raised by non-working parents.

Id estimate that my neighbour with her 6 kids and the ages of them probably got around £14 000 in benefits. Its not a lot of money and Im aware kids need to be fed and clothed.

When I was unemployed for a year or so a few years back I lived on 71 pounds a week. Even with the expenses she had due to the kids Id say that she probably had more disposable income per week than I did.

I understand the reasons why there are barriers to women getting jobs, expensive childcare. But lots of people are poor, they don't all make poor lifestyle choices. The kids she had were and are at a disadvantage not because of her lack of money but because of her poor parenting skills.

Of course lots of things get passed down from generation to generation, but at some point people need to take responsibility for themselves. Or they should.

The neighbour Ive spoken about before has worked probably for a 2 week period in 20 years. When she actually has at some point to try and find employment, she's going to find it very difficult.

meer53

supermassive wrote: »

I'm sorry you are of that opinion. The facts I talk of are gained from years of being involved with these people. Both as part of the DWP and from living in Grimsby. It's truly a shame that you've, for some reason, taken my comments as some kind of feather-ruffler directed at you or your life. Perhaps you're an anomaly, perhaps you had great parents that happened to not have much money. Perhaps. The fact is that the combination of great parents & little money aren't the standard in working class Britain.



Surely you can see that despite her disposable income (benefits) she is what is classed as 'poor'. This is commonplace in towns with high poverty rates.

Infact, in Grimsby, having a child you can't afford at a young age is considered a career path. "I don't want a job so I'll have a kid so I don't have to get one" and that attitude comes from being raised by non-working parents.

I don't see your comments as being directed at me. I see them as very narrow minded and coming from someone who is very negative.

My upbringing was not an anomaly, you seem to have this strange opinion that people with little money who have children invariably end up with children who do not do well in life. This is far, far from the truth. It may be like that in Grimsby, but in the majority of the UK, families with very little money are bringing up their children to be perfectly well behaved and to go on and make something of their lives.

I'd move from Grimsby if i were you.

supermassive

meer53 wrote: »

I don't see your comments as being directed at me. I see them as very narrow minded and coming from someone who is very negative.

My upbringing was not an anomaly, you seem to have this strange opinion that people with little money who have children invariably end up with children who do not do well in life. This is far, far from the truth. It may be like that in Grimsby, but in the majority of the UK, families with very little money are bringing up their children to be perfectly well behaved and to go on and make something of their lives.

I'd move from Grimsby if i were you.

Worldwide poverty breeds poverty. I lived in Sydney for a year, and their poverty stricken area is called Redfern, I believe, and.. well... it's like a mini home-from-home.

Where have you lived where these fabulous parents are doing such a good job on so little money?

Don't even get me started about getting out of Grimsby. The problem is that wages are so low, you have no chance of crawling out of the pit. You get paid very little and are stuck near your job, paying most of your wages on rent for a house that's either falling to pieces or plagued by horrendous neighbours or both. Then the extortionate council rates on top of it all... It's a black hole. The only hope of getting away is if you have family that live away or if you win the lotto, really...

meer53

supermassive wrote: »

Worldwide poverty breeds poverty. I lived in Sydney for a year, and their poverty stricken area is called Redfern, I believe, and.. well... it's like a mini home-from-home.

Where have you lived where these fabulous parents are doing such a good job on so little money?

Don't even get me started about getting out of Grimsby. The problem is that wages are so low, you have no chance of crawling out of the pit. You get paid very little and are stuck near your job, paying most of your wages on rent for a house that's either falling to pieces or plagued by horrendous neighbours or both. Then the extortionate council rates on top of it all... It's a black hole. The only hope of getting away is if you have family that live away or if you win the lotto, really...

You are sooo negative :eek:

I've spent time in Australia and South Africa, i've lived in Devon but am from Yorkshire. I currently live near Leeds. I have friends with children all over the world.

You really must stop thinking that ALL parents with little money end up with kids on crack or selling their bodies. It IS NOT the norm. Believe me.

If Grimsby is so bad, why do you stay ? Do you not have any ambition to live in a better place ? You don't have to have family elsewhere or win the lottery to move to another town. Just do it.

From your other posts i gather you're young and have no family, whats stopping you ?

purpleshoes_2

supermassive wrote: »

Worldwide poverty breeds poverty. I lived in Sydney for a year, and their poverty stricken area is called Redfern, I believe, and.. well... it's like a mini home-from-home.

Where have you lived where these fabulous parents are doing such a good job on so little money?

Don't even get me started about getting out of Grimsby. The problem is that wages are so low, you have no chance of crawling out of the pit. You get paid very little and are stuck near your job, paying most of your wages on rent for a house that's either falling to pieces or plagued by horrendous neighbours or both. Then the extortionate council rates on top of it all... It's a black hole. The only hope of getting away is if you have family that live away or if you win the lotto, really...

Or you make the best of the life you have in the area you are in. There's nothing spectacular about the town I live in, or the next, or the next but there are plenty of people who live ordinary enough lives and do ok even though they are far from rich.

There are many people out there who don't have much money right now, lots of people who work and still don't have much.

Having money doesn't automatically make people fabulous parents. Not having money doesn't automatically make people poor parents.

It doesn't all come down to income.

Also, as someone who wants to try and change things I got involved on a local level with a political party Im a member of. There are many people out there much worse off than I am and I bear that in mind when I'm fed up about my own financial situation.

corf999

I come from a rural area where poor and rich alike go to the same school and have the same education opportunities.

The poor kids often have more drive, there are a lot of very successfully kids from the local council estates.

The rich kids often already have everything and don't bother applying themselves to anything and become life wasters.

Its all about the parenting........

onlyroz

supermassive wrote: »

Don't even get me started about getting out of Grimsby. The problem is that wages are so low, you have no chance of crawling out of the pit. You get paid very little and are stuck near your job, paying most of your wages on rent for a house that's either falling to pieces or plagued by horrendous neighbours or both. Then the extortionate council rates on top of it all... It's a black hole. The only hope of getting away is if you have family that live away or if you win the lotto, really...

I thought that Grimsby had a thriving food industry, and so presumably there are plenty of jobs in that area? Even if they're only paying minimum wage doesn't it get topped up to a "living wage" via tax credits?

There is also a university (which my brother went to), which provides other opportunities to get out of the "black hole".

LilElvis

supermassive wrote: »

Put your emotional handbag away for a second and think outside of what you experienced personally. Look at the bigger picture. Poverty breeds poverty, and somewhere down the line, that changes people from rational thinking upstanding members of communities, into shells of what they could've been.

Living proof is in many towns in the Humber region.

That's nice that your mother cared, and that she had the skills to take care of you, but some parents come from long lines of poverty, which means there's no ambition, no regard for what's right as long as they can stay alive.

Obviously my honest opinion was never going to be favoured in a place that's full of mothers and people that desperately want to become mothers :rotfl: I didn't expect anyone to think rationally about what I've said.

OK, so I did everything the "right" way in planning to have a child. Stable, long term relationship with a man who wanted children and who would be very engaged in parenting. Bought a large house in a nice area - mortgage effectively paid off 4 years ago. Very financially stable - good job, high level of savings, good pension provisions. Did I tick all your boxes for being ready to become a parent? Except your missing one factor. Age. I didn't get to this point at 20, 25 or 30 but in my late 30's. I doubt many currently in their 20's would achieve my position by even their late 40's with the current state of the economy and the ever rising house prices. And by then it would be too late. I was too late even at 38 as, I now know, my eggs were largely defunct years earlier due to a hormonal problem. Fortunately we could afford the nearly £25,000 we spent in an 18 month period on IVF. I finally had my daughter at age 43. In the real world of today few could tick your boxes in relation to material wealth before their biological clock has stopped ticking.

supermassive

onlyroz wrote: »

I thought that Grimsby had a thriving food industry, and so presumably there are plenty of jobs in that area? Even if they're only paying minimum wage doesn't it get topped up to a "living wage" via tax credits?

There is also a university (which my brother went to), which provides other opportunities to get out of the "black hole".

The food industry is a front put on by publicity seekers. There are more job seekers than jobs for those jobs. I temporarily worked in some through an agency last year when I'd hit rock bottom. They're populated by ex jailbirds. Every day there was a bike stolen from outside.

Not that that should stop you getting a job in one, but there are no jobs available in them... not for the amount of people that are applying for the jobs.

The 'university' or Grimsby College as it used to be known before they built a new square block on and did all the uni courses in there so they can call it a university... is dire. My sister attends at the moment, it's not what it appears to be.

It's a trap.

Buzzybee90

supermassive wrote: »

The food industry is a front put on by publicity seekers. There are more job seekers than jobs for those jobs. I temporarily worked in some through an agency last year when I'd hit rock bottom. They're populated by ex jailbirds. Every day there was a bike stolen from outside.

Not that that should stop you getting a job in one, but there are no jobs available in them... not for the amount of people that are applying for the jobs.

The 'university' or Grimsby College as it used to be known before they built a new square block on and did all the uni courses in there so they can call it a university... is dire. My sister attends at the moment, it's not what it appears to be.

It's a trap.

If Grimsby is as bad as you say (it find look like a dump full of undesirables on the obviously bias TV show) why don't you move?