Should People Have Children If They Cant Afford Them

supermassive

Buzzybee90 wrote: »

Put your tiny violin away supermassive

It's called reality, my darling. When you're so broke that you cannot afford gas in your house and your only option for a meal is to hope the frozen pie you take out of the (near-empty switched-off-to-save-money) freezer defrosts to some degree of softness to allow you to eat for that day, then I think mocking someone's upbringing in poverty as them being dramatic or playing the 'tiny violin' card is fairly pathetic.

I think you and others are missing the point that children raised in poverty - not "I didn't have a landline until I was a teenager" mild lack of spare funds, but "I didn't have a single brand new item of clothing until I was an adult and every pair of shoes I've ever had only got thrown out because they were completely unwearable" degree of poverty.

The kind of poverty that meant your house smelled awful due to the lack of funds available to be able to do the washing more than once a week despite the fact that your brother was born with a bladder problem and would wee whenever the urge hit him.

Do you think it's OK to bring a child into that kind of poverty? Do you think it's ok to bring a child into the world with anything less than the best to give them? No child asks to be born, no child asks for you to 'scrape by' and give them less than their peers.

meer53 wrote: »

I grew up on a council estate with my single mum (my dad died when i was small) We never went on a holiday abroad, we never had a car, we didn't have a telephone in the house until i was in my teens. My Mum showed me that not having money was no barrier to where you can go in life. It's up to you.

I never really got the chance to thank my Mum for where i am now. I'm really sad about that. It was her outlook on life and the way she brought us up that led us to where me and my brother are now. It had absolutely nothing to do with how much money we had. Because we had none.

Supermassive, your comments make you sound very bitter.

Of course I'm bitter. I think anyone would be to an extent.

Of course you "go where you want to in life" to a degree, but what about these people that are born in poor areas and get mixed in with the wrong type of low-life people due to living in those areas? What do they do when they're reliant on drugs? What do they do when they're selling their bodies as a teenager? Did they have the same chance in life that someone with more money would've had? No they did not.

I love the phrase "holidays abroad" and how it indicates you had some kind of stay-in-the-country holidays. We didn't. We had nothing of the sort unless it was from the side with money. If he'd been a poorer man, then what?

Honestly. I can tell none of you were born into actual financial struggles. If not being able to afford luxuries is a main concern for you then you've got it pretty good.

FBaby

The property you live in relates to the schools nearby.

In my town, the top secondary school is the one in the poorest estate! It's been best for about 8 years now, since a new Headteacher came over. People from miles away are desperate for their kids to get in!

The school my kids go to is a complete mix bag. It covers one of nicest area in town as well as an estate on the other side.

Even if it is true that the worse performing schools are the only ones available to the poorer children, surely it doesn't mean that as a poor child, you have no chance for a better future if you are naturally intellectually capable.

supermassive

FBaby wrote: »

In my town, the top secondary school is the one in the poorest estate! It's been best for about 8 years now, since a new Headteacher came over. People from miles away are desperate for their kids to get in!

The school my kids go to is a complete mix bag. It covers one of nicest area in town as well as an estate on the other side.

Even if it is true that the worse performing schools are the only ones available to the poorer children, surely it doesn't mean that as a poor child, you have no chance for a better future if you are naturally intellectually capable.

There are very few that get to see their intellectual assets nourished, though, as they associate with people that take them on a path (or encourage them) towards things less savoury than education.

I've seen it myself several (hundred) times. Why do you think parents don't like their child mixing with the naughty kid?

That is odd that the best school in your area would be there, but I think the fact that poorer areas have lower grades in general is a clear indicator of my point.

FBaby

But surely this is where education has evolved, at least in some places? My DD would be considered the 'rich' kid that is bound to succeed. Yet she is very good friends with a couple of girls who live in a single parent household on benefits. These girls are often invited to our house.

I also don't know why you would automatically associate 'poor' children with naughtiness. There might be a higher percentage of children with issues coming from poorer families, but it certainly isn't a direct link.

The school I refer to used to be the worse off and was totally turned around by a fantastic headteacher. It has had the best GCSEs scored above the 5 other local secondary schools for a number of years now, which shows that with discipline and aspirations, poor children can do extremely well too.

I am not trying to deny that the link you make reference to doesn't exist, but I don't agree with the generalisation. I think education is doing a great job to support intellectually able children from poor background to have access to the same the same opportunities than the rich.

owl_lover

Think some of these comments are pretty misinformed.
My mother had me when she was 17 and we were pretty poor through much of my childhood but I had a brilliant life because she gave me emotional support.
The secondary school I went to was pretty rough ( yes, some people I went to school with have been to prison!) but I achieved exceptional grades ( all A/A*s- not wanting to blow my own trumpet).
I was accepted into a good university where I achieved a high 2.1 degree despite having a baby myself half way through.
My family and I are moving to Spain next year where I will teach English and we will be able to have a pretty good (sunny ) life.
On the other hand, one of close friends has millionaire parents but was left with a nanny from a young age and sent to boarding school at 8.
She didn't get good gsces and just scraped a 2.2 at uni, and is currently not speaking to her father who said he hated her because she was a constant disappointment.
I wonder who were the better parents?

[Deleted User]

Can we all agree that it isn't a fabulous idea to have kids if you know you are going to be bringing them up in abject poverty and squalor?

meer53

supermassive wrote: »

It's called reality, my darling. When you're so broke that you cannot afford gas in your house and your only option for a meal is to hope the frozen pie you take out of the (near-empty switched-off-to-save-money) freezer defrosts to some degree of softness to allow you to eat for that day, then I think mocking someone's upbringing in poverty as them being dramatic or playing the 'tiny violin' card is fairly pathetic.

I think you and others are missing the point that children raised in poverty - not "I didn't have a landline until I was a teenager" mild lack of spare funds, but "I didn't have a single brand new item of clothing until I was an adult and every pair of shoes I've ever had only got thrown out because they were completely unwearable" degree of poverty.

The kind of poverty that meant your house smelled awful due to the lack of funds available to be able to do the washing more than once a week despite the fact that your brother was born with a bladder problem and would wee whenever the urge hit him.

Do you think it's OK to bring a child into that kind of poverty? Do you think it's ok to bring a child into the world with anything less than the best to give them? No child asks to be born, no child asks for you to 'scrape by' and give them less than their peers.



Of course I'm bitter. I think anyone would be to an extent.

Of course you "go where you want to in life" to a degree, but what about these people that are born in poor areas and get mixed in with the wrong type of low-life people due to living in those areas? What do they do when they're reliant on drugs? What do they do when they're selling their bodies as a teenager? Did they have the same chance in life that someone with more money would've had? No they did not.

I love the phrase "holidays abroad" and how it indicates you had some kind of stay-in-the-country holidays. We didn't. We had nothing of the sort unless it was from the side with money. If he'd been a poorer man, then what?

Honestly. I can tell none of you were born into actual financial struggles. If not being able to afford luxuries is a main concern for you then you've got it pretty good.

With that huge chip on your shoulder, you will never move on.

My mum used a paraffin heater to warm the house. Later on, when the paraffin heater packed up it was a calor gas heater. The bedroom windows frequently froze on the inside in winter.

All my clothes were hand made by my Mum, i had 3 brothers so there were no hand me downs. I got 1 new dress a year, at Whitsuntide.

It's not only poor people who turn to drugs or prostitution. Those people make their own choices, it's nothing to do with how much money they had when they were growing up.

You contradict yourself stating you had no holidays "unless it was from the side with money" ? There was no "side with money" when i was small, my Mum was one of a family of 11 who were all in the same situation.

But do you know what ? I had a fantastic childhood, my Mum made sure of that. Chilidren from all walks of life get bullied at school, even the ones with the "right" trainers or the newest phone.

How dare you pass comment on how you can tell peoples financial situations ? You know absolutely nothing about the people who post on this forum or their backgrounds.

FBaby

My mother had me when she was 17 and we were pretty poor through much of my childhood but I had a brilliant life because she gave me emotional support.

I think you've said it all. It's not financial poverty that stop children from growing into productive well balanced adults, it is emotional poverty. The two are linked, but not systematically. It becomes more of a problem when poverty passes on from one generation to another and the values that come with success become a foreign language.

Poverty as a result of parents who have fallen into tough times but who hold and pass the values to encourage success will see their children do well especially if the happen to be intellectually able.

supermassive

meer53 wrote: »

With that huge chip on your shoulder, you will never move on.

My mum used a paraffin heater to warm the house. Later on, when the paraffin heater packed up it was a calor gas heater. The bedroom windows frequently froze on the inside in winter.

All my clothes were hand made by my Mum, i had 3 brothers so there were no hand me downs. I got 1 new dress a year, at Whitsuntide.

It's not only poor people who turn to drugs or prostitution. Those people make their own choices, it's nothing to do with how much money they had when they were growing up.

You contradict yourself stating you had no holidays "unless it was from the side with money" ? There was no "side with money" when i was small, my Mum was one of a family of 11 who were all in the same situation.

But do you know what ? I had a fantastic childhood, my Mum made sure of that. Chilidren from all walks of life get bullied at school, even the ones with the "right" trainers or the newest phone.

How dare you pass comment on how you can tell peoples financial situations ? You know absolutely nothing about the people who post on this forum or their backgrounds.

Put your emotional handbag away for a second and think outside of what you experienced personally. Look at the bigger picture. Poverty breeds poverty, and somewhere down the line, that changes people from rational thinking upstanding members of communities, into shells of what they could've been.

Living proof is in many towns in the Humber region.

That's nice that your mother cared, and that she had the skills to take care of you, but some parents come from long lines of poverty, which means there's no ambition, no regard for what's right as long as they can stay alive.

Obviously my honest opinion was never going to be favoured in a place that's full of mothers and people that desperately want to become mothers :rotfl: I didn't expect anyone to think rationally about what I've said.

kaya

Should people deny their driven natural primal genetic instinct to continue their gene pool and secure the future of their species because of the financial restrictions placed upon them by "society" would be a more appropriate and contextual heading for this thread, society can be a prison if you are poor and a playground if you are wealthy