Should People Have Children If They Cant Afford Them

lazer

supermassive wrote: »

Put your emotional handbag away for a second and think outside of what you experienced personally. Look at the bigger picture. Poverty breeds poverty, and somewhere down the line, that changes people from rational thinking upstanding members of communities, into shells of what they could've been.

Living proof is in many towns in the Humber region.

That's nice that your mother cared, and that she had the skills to take care of you, but some parents come from long lines of poverty, which means there's no ambition, no regard for what's right as long as they can stay alive.

Obviously my honest opinion was never going to be favoured in a place that's full of mothers and people that desperately want to become mothers :rotfl: I didn't expect anyone to think rationally about what I've said.

Poverty doesn't breed poverty, I agree with the above, its about support and encouragement from parents not money, there is no reason to assume those in poverty don't provide enough emotional support and encouragement to their children.


Supermassive - I think you found your childhood tough as you experienced from both sides, you probably wouldn't have noticed the poverty as much at your mums if you weren't comparing it to what you had at your Dad's. Most people brought up in poverty don't get to experience anything other the poverty, so it is therefore accepted as the norm for them.


It is not because this place is full of wannabee mothers and mothers that people don't like your opinion, its because many of us have been brought up in poverty and had no objections to our childhood.

kaya

supermassive wrote: »

Put your emotional handbag away for a second and think outside of what you experienced personally. Look at the bigger picture. Poverty breeds poverty, and somewhere down the line, that changes people from rational thinking upstanding members of communities, into shells of what they could've been.

Living proof is in many towns in the Humber region.

That's nice that your mother cared, and that she had the skills to take care of you, but some parents come from long lines of poverty, which means there's no ambition, no regard for what's right as long as they can stay alive.

Obviously my honest opinion was never going to be favoured in a place that's full of mothers and people that desperately want to become mothers :rotfl: I didn't expect anyone to think rationally about what I've said.

" poverty breeds poverty" WALOB , my parents had nothing and we were poor , second hand clothes and hand me downs, tomorrow I move into my 1/2 million pound house with only a £97k mortgage and have £70k aside for extention and building work, it's attitudes like " poverty breed poverty" that keep people poor , my uncle had nothing and is now a self made multimillionaire as is my friend mark who lives in his £5 million pound house in Portugal and has retired at the age of 42

onlyroz

supermassive wrote: »

Put your emotional handbag away for a second and think outside of what you experienced personally. Look at the bigger picture. Poverty breeds poverty, and somewhere down the line, that changes people from rational thinking upstanding members of communities, into shells of what they could've been.

Living proof is in many towns in the Humber region.

That's nice that your mother cared, and that she had the skills to take care of you, but some parents come from long lines of poverty, which means there's no ambition, no regard for what's right as long as they can stay alive.

Obviously my honest opinion was never going to be favoured in a place that's full of mothers and people that desperately want to become mothers :rotfl: I didn't expect anyone to think rationally about what I've said.

But the opportunities are there for everyone. We all have a free education until age 18 and sit the same exams. We all have access to University if we wish to go, with no obligation to pay back student loans until we've graduated and are earning a decent salary. If you are driven and are intelligent enough then there are no barriers in place beyond the ones you put infront of yourself.

Of course it's easier if you have supportive parents and good teachers but any problems faced are not insurmountable.

And I say this as a person who comes from that very same Humber region of which you speak.

Izadora

supermassive wrote: »

When you're so broke that you cannot afford gas in your house and your only option for a meal is to hope the frozen pie you take out of the (near-empty switched-off-to-save-money) freezer defrosts to some degree of softness to allow you to eat for that day, then I think mocking someone's upbringing in poverty as them being dramatic or playing the 'tiny violin' card is fairly pathetic.

I don't think anyone would agree that it's a good idea to bring a child into that level of poverty but there's a very big difference between being able to feed and clothe a child to a comfortable level and the provisions you seem to think are the minimum you should be able to manage before becoming parents...

supermassive wrote: »

If you care enough to bring life into the world, make sure you can afford to give that child the things they deserve for a decent upbringing.

This refers to social normalities associated with money so they're not outcast at school
A catchment area for a good school
Finances to be able to reach further education
The finances to take them to educational places (zoo, museum etc) (and a car to go in).

If you can't afford to do that and still have leftover money, keep your legs crossed.

purpleshoes_2

Its not just poverty thats an issue. It can be terrible parenting as well. I live in a council estate that has around an 80 per cent unemployment rate. I have a neighbour with 6 kids, shes around 35. Shes not impoverished, Id say she probably has around 10 times more disposable income than I have.

But shes got poor parenting skills. Social services are involved with the family, her eldest and second eldest son have been in jail on several occasions. Both have anger issues. Both her boys were parents at 16 themselves. Its just following patterns. Some kids don't have a chance.
She's not poor though even though she lives in a poor area. She uses drugs and also deals (although the housing didn't want to know this was happening). She actually had to flee the area recently as someone took a fatal overdose in her house (the mother of her sons child). I remember saying to my mum a few years ago about one of the boys, by the time hes 16 he'll either be a parent himself or he'll be in jail, turns out he was both.

I grew up in a family home that didn't have very much spare cash. My mum had me at 19, she was married but her marriage broke down in her early 20s. My dad has money, but I never saw any of it, but the bare minimum, which was around £2 a week in those days and she had to take him to court for him to pay that.

I didn't grow up in grinding poverty but into a very working class family, both my brother and I went to university, I'm sure if you look at certain statistics then I might have been someone who the statistics would have said wouldn't have done very much with her life, but the fact that I did was down to the fact that my mum is and was a great parent.

I can see it from many angles as I worked with young people including young pregnant women and addicts for a long time. I know that many kids grow up not having much of a chance, but that isn't always down to money. It can be down to not having the skills to look after or even care about your kids very much.

Also, there are kids and teens from affluent areas who can and will go off the rails. Ive done detached youth work in very wealthy areas where myself and my co worker weren't allowed to walk in certain areas at night without someone from the area being there, there are parents who have cash who also can't be bothered with their kids and just give them money to go out and cause havoc with.

Being born into a family with money might give you a better start in life and being born into a family who doesn't have very much can hold you back, but there are so many other factors to consider as well.

meer53

supermassive wrote: »

Put your emotional handbag away for a second and think outside of what you experienced personally. Look at the bigger picture. Poverty breeds poverty, and somewhere down the line, that changes people from rational thinking upstanding members of communities, into shells of what they could've been.

Living proof is in many towns in the Humber region.

That's nice that your mother cared, and that she had the skills to take care of you, but some parents come from long lines of poverty, which means there's no ambition, no regard for what's right as long as they can stay alive.

Obviously my honest opinion was never going to be favoured in a place that's full of mothers and people that desperately want to become mothers :rotfl: I didn't expect anyone to think rationally about what I've said.

I think you're the one that should look at the bigger picture. They're very immature comments IMO.

purpleshoes_2

supermassive wrote: »

There are very few that get to see their intellectual assets nourished, though, as they associate with people that take them on a path (or encourage them) towards things less savoury than education.

I've seen it myself several (hundred) times. Why do you think parents don't like their child mixing with the naughty kid?

That is odd that the best school in your area would be there, but I think the fact that poorer areas have lower grades in general is a clear indicator of my point.

I have a degree and two post grads, my brother has a degree. Not everyone who grows up in a family who doesn't have a lot of spare cash mixes with people who are going to encourage them to do less savoury things than stay in education. Somewhere along the line there has to be something about you, the person yourself and what you want from life. When my brother was 17 a couple of his mates started drinking fairly heavily and using drugs, he made the decision to cut ties with them, because he wanted to go to uni and they were going off the rails. Some teens have the sense to see the bigger picture. Again, both of these mates came from families that had much more disposable income than ours, but one of his friends mum and dad were really strict and the friend started rebelling.

I remember when I was in second year at high school. Some of the worst behaved and I mean to the point that they were suspended/expelled were people who were from very well to do homes. One was a ministers daughter. One got expelled for jumping on the car bonnet of a teachers car at the school christmas dance and pulling her windscreen wipers off (while steaming drunk).

When I was 14 a girl in my year got pregnant (no one would bat an eyelid now but 30 years ago it caused a scandal). She was from a very well to do family.

As I said before, anyone can go off the rails, no matter their background.

supermassive

meer53 wrote: »

I think you're the one that should look at the bigger picture. They're very immature comments IMO.

I'm sorry you are of that opinion. The facts I talk of are gained from years of being involved with these people. Both as part of the DWP and from living in Grimsby. It's truly a shame that you've, for some reason, taken my comments as some kind of feather-ruffler directed at you or your life. Perhaps you're an anomaly, perhaps you had great parents that happened to not have much money. Perhaps. The fact is that the combination of great parents & little money aren't the standard in working class Britain.

purpleshoes wrote: »

Its not just poverty thats an issue. It can be terrible parenting as well. I live in a council estate that has around an 80 per cent unemployment rate. I have a neighbour with 6 kids, shes around 35. Shes not impoverished, Id say she probably has around 10 times more disposable income than I have.

But shes got poor parenting skills. Social services are involved with the family, her eldest and second eldest son have been in jail on several occasions. Both have anger issues. Both her boys were parents at 16 themselves. Its just following patterns. Some kids don't have a chance.
She's not poor though even though she lives in a poor area. She uses drugs and also deals (although the housing didn't want to know this was happening). She actually had to flee the area recently as someone took a fatal overdose in her house (the mother of her sons child). I remember saying to my mum a few years ago about one of the boys, by the time hes 16 he'll either be a parent himself or he'll be in jail, turns out he was both.

I grew up in a family home that didn't have very much spare cash. My mum had me at 19, she was married but her marriage broke down in her early 20s. My dad has money, but I never saw any of it, but the bare minimum, which was around £2 a week in those days and she had to take him to court for him to pay that.

I didn't grow up in grinding poverty but into a very working class family, both my brother and I went to university, I'm sure if you look at certain statistics then I might have been someone who the statistics would have said wouldn't have done very much with her life, but the fact that I did was down to the fact that my mum is and was a great parent.

I can see it from many angles as I worked with young people including young pregnant women and addicts for a long time. I know that many kids grow up not having much of a chance, but that isn't always down to money. It can be down to not having the skills to look after or even care about your kids very much.

Also, there are kids and teens from affluent areas who can and will go off the rails. Ive done detached youth work in very wealthy areas where myself and my co worker weren't allowed to walk in certain areas at night without someone from the area being there, there are parents who have cash who also can't be bothered with their kids and just give them money to go out and cause havoc with.

Being born into a family with money might give you a better start in life and being born into a family who doesn't have very much can hold you back, but there are so many other factors to consider as well.

Surely you can see that despite her disposable income (benefits) she is what is classed as 'poor'. This is commonplace in towns with high poverty rates.

Infact, in Grimsby, having a child you can't afford at a young age is considered a career path. "I don't want a job so I'll have a kid so I don't have to get one" and that attitude comes from being raised by non-working parents.

Buzzybee90

supermassive wrote: »

I'm sorry you are of that opinion. The facts I talk of are gained from years of being involved with these people. Both as part of the DWP and from living in Grimsby. It's truly a shame that you've, for some reason, taken my comments as some kind of feather-ruffler directed at you or your life. Perhaps you're an anomaly, perhaps you had great parents that happened to not have much money. Perhaps. The fact is that the combination of great parents & little money aren't the standard in working class Britain.



Surely you can see that despite her disposable income (benefits) she is what is classed as 'poor'. This is commonplace in towns with high poverty rates.

Infact, in Grimsby, having a child you can't afford at a young age is considered a career path. "I don't want a job so I'll have a kid so I don't have to get one" and that attitude comes from being raised by non-working parents.

Did you watch Skint the other week? It was in Grimsby.

supermassive

Buzzybee90 wrote: »

Did you watch Skint the other week? It was in Grimsby.

I've watched it twice, I think. I grew up on the 'estate' they mainly filmed it on. I say 'estate' because it's not an estate, it's a heaving great chunk of the town which filters out across Grimsby and through Cleethorpes.

I know some of the people that were on skint. The tattooed ex-bouncer that got put in prison for breaking 2 people's jaws amongst others. You tend to come across the less fortunate and unscrupulous people when you own and operate a charity that has a charity shop for the local homeless. The amount of stolen goods that they attempt to sell when we have to tell them we only accept donations :rotfl: