Nice People 13: Nice Save

lostinrates

lostinrates wrote: »

Agreed.

I think the whether its achievable or not is a huge moral question that we have been rumination on for decades. Yet still cannot really answer satisfactorily. The best answer seems to be sometimes but not always, and yet economics doesn't allow that divide really.

Going back to this point briefly, if looking at school entrance is a reliable indicator of 'swanning about ' ( not convinced it is because a huge percentage of those children will be from households where both parents work) then its not insubstantial numbers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11167029/Four-in-10-children-not-ready-for-school-at-the-age-of-five.html

Deprived background is a key factor it seems, but money in itself doesn't make that sort of parenting. In fact, its one of the areas where money REALLY doesn't. Interacting with children in the kind of way that prepares them is draining but not financially.

lostinrates

PasturesNew wrote: »

Slots are getting much narrower. I now try to park furthest from the doorway of a building as I can always get my car into a space, but car rarely open the door. I try to find an end slot, just so I can get out.... and be able to get back into the car when I return.

Its funny as more people drive bigger cars. The RR sits in spaces but leaves no door opening room in many.

Spirit_2

lostinrates wrote: »

Its funny as more people drive bigger cars. The RR sits in spaces but leaves no door opening room in many.

A friend was 8 months pregnant and drove to an antenatal appt at a local hospital. she managed to park in a space but there was no way she could get out of the car. she had to reverse out of the space and block the 'road' then get out of the car and ask a now held up driver to park it for her. After her appt she had to ask another motorist to oblige so she could get back in.

lostinrates

Spirit wrote: »

A friend was 8 months pregnant and drove to an antenatal appt at a local hospital. she managed to park in a space but there was no way she could get out of the car. she had to reverse out of the space and block the 'road' then get out of the car and ask a now held up driver to park it for her. After her appt she had to ask another motorist to oblige so she could get back in.

With the defender at least you could kind of worm over the seats and get out of the back door.

That reminds me, garage haven't collected defender yet. Hope they do soon.

Doozergirl

lostinrates wrote: »

Going back to this point briefly, if looking at school entrance is a reliable indicator of 'swanning about ' ( not convinced it is because a huge percentage of those children will be from households where both parents work) then its not insubstantial numbers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11167029/Four-in-10-children-not-ready-for-school-at-the-age-of-five.html

Deprived background is a key factor it seems, but money in itself doesn't make that sort of parenting. In fact, its one of the areas where money REALLY doesn't. Interacting with children in the kind of way that prepares them is draining but not financially.

I don't like this article. I don't think this is necessarily evidence of swanning about of parents, nursery staff or reception teachers. I think it's evidence of how the government expects children between 48-60 months old to fit into the same developmental box. It also shows that girls develop faster than boys. It doesn't surprise me that such a large percentage are not capable, yet the answer here seems to be starting them at school at two years old?

I'd much prefer to see how those figures balance in smaller age chunks.

DS went to nursery with a lovely girl. Her mother moved them to Sweden (where she was from) at the end of nursery so that her daughter didn't have to start school until she was 7.

LydiaJ

I'm still not convinced that even moderately bad parents get to do much swanning. Sure, you can strap a kid into a pushchair for a while, and then it can't do much. But you can't keep it there forever. You still have to spend a lot of your time spooning food into it, changing its nappy (or wiping its bottom) grabbing it when it tries to break things, picking up what it has left all over the floor, keeping an eye on it for every single minute that it's not actually asleep or strapped into something, all day, day after day after day, to see whether it is trying to escape out of the front door or stick a fork into an electrical socket, etc. There's a tiny minority of criminally negligent parents who don't do these things, but the vast majority of even non-ideal SAHMs do grindingly boring and repetitive things like this day in day out. Those girls that NP mention seeing hanging about with their mates with kids in push chairs are just trying to get a bit of a break from it, an oasis of adult company - which they need far more desperately than many middle class mothers because lots of them are single mothers and have no adult to talk to at home. They're not really any different from middle class mothers chatting over coffee with their friends at a weekly toddler group in the village hall or local church, or in their homes - just less well resourced to do so.

When I had littlies, I was friends with some of "those" mothers at a mother and toddler group that I went to every Tuesday morning. I didn't have much in common with them in other respects, but I had everything in common with them as regards the experience of mothering a relentlessly demanding, utterly irresponsible and potentially destructive small person that I loved in a way I'd never imagined. Oh, apart from that it was easier for me because I was married and had a husband at home to help when he wasn't working, and many of them didn't.

Until you've tried being a single mother of a pre-schooler, cut them some slack. It's a hell of a lot harder, even if you do it badly, than you can imagine before it's you that's doing it.

The only mothers of toddlers who get to swan anywhere are the ones that put the toddler in a nursery or with a childminder, and swan off to work, where nobody throws their food on the floor, and everybody manages their own toileting. That's not a criticism of working mothers - I've been one and still am one. When mine were little and I worked Mon/Wed/Fri, I promise you that the days that felt like swanning were the work days, not the Tues/Thurs on my own with them at home.

lostinrates

LydiaJ wrote: »

Until you've tried being a single mother of a pre-schooler, cut them some slack. It's a hell of a lot harder, even if you do it badly, than you can imagine before it's you that's doing it.

I was. My sibling was not capacitated to take care of her two, so I had to.

And I am afraid I strongly disagree with you Lydia and doozergirl. And its not just a social demographic issue, but often nannies or au pairs pick up a huge slack.

How are breakable a dealt with? They are out of reach.


Re seven school starting age.....personally I think that's fine, IF the parenting and prep is adequate. If its not and the parenting is not, then you get kids who cannot cope.

What we forget when we talk about Scandinavia is the social structure, which has a different impact.

LydiaJ

lir, don't apologise for disagreeing. We don't all have to agree all the time, just be nice to each other.

If you found looking after toddlers for months at a time to be easy and feel like swanning around, then I have huge respect and admiration for you. You have strengths and skills that I haven't got. I didn't find it easy - rewarding and enjoyable, yes, but easy, absolutely not. I imagine that more people find it hard as I did rather than easy as you did. That's not surprising. People have different skill sets. I would find your current job with your animals and building work etc v hard too, but you love it. Maybe my job wouldn't suit you. Life would be boring if we were all the same, and it would be harder to find people to take all the different roles that society needs.

LydiaJ

Going out to a meeting - so if I don't reply, please don't think I'm sulking!!

lostinrates

LydiaJ wrote: »

lir, don't apologise for disagreeing. We don't all have to agree all the time, just be nice to each other.

If you found looking after toddlers for months at a time to be easy and feel like swanning around, then I have huge respect and admiration for you. You have strengths and skills that I haven't got. I didn't find it easy. I imagine that more people find it hard as I did rather than easy as you did. That's not surprising. People have different skill sets. I would find your current job with your animals and building work etc v hard too, but you love it. Maybe my job wouldn't suit you. Life would be boring if we were all the same, and it would be harder to find people to take all the different roles that society needs.

No, you are mis reading what I have said over a series of posts.

I did NOT say it was easy or was swanning around. I said some people do it that way. Very clearly. The difference IS evident in their children. Like it or not, it is.

I did NOT find it easy. Let's be clear, it was not the most intellectually stimulating thing I have done, not the most stressful, but
If you read back in my responses you will see I was saying done well it is draining in all respects but financial. Done poorly....it is a chore that impedes on swanning around. More like having a low interest pet dog.

It was fun, and rewarding and tiring and I detesting lots of the play date kids and mommas and I hated those bloody sippy cups ( which used to be called beakers....getting that mouth part clean). But it was fun knowing that things we were talking about was going in and having funny conversations where you realised how misleading your explanation had been and having to rectify it. I missed having a lone time ( particularly as it was at a very busy and stressful but wildly exciting point in my life (and was putting strain on other areas of my life) and I also had ' parent' impact and couldn't make all the parenting decisions which was hard because you'd just get a routine in place and the parent would rip it up and undermine it and then leave me with distraught kids again, a frustrated and not easy going partner. I was certainly not able to be sah with them. They went to nursery and preschool/school at the same places as each other and that tedious wait for one to finish after the other and being excited to chat to them both but also wondering if things were going well with work stuff was very difficult as I felt all the time very torn.




There is a whole layer of parenting between criminal and just normally flawed. And THOSE are what I am thinking about when Pn talks of the swanning around parents.



Easy no, but I didn't say to do it well it was easy, and that you have inferred that suggests a miscommunication. In this case I do not feel the miscommunication is solely mine.